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October 22, 2007


Vance Bedbug

Several things to point out. The Doblo as tested does not have regenerative braking. The idea behind using half of the 35KWhr battery in the Phoenix is that there are fleet applications where 60 mile per charge with an available 10 minute fast charger meets the design spec way cheaper than ICE solutions.

I'm not sure, but the NanoSafe battery can operate at below freezing temperatures without significant degradation. That may prove handy in Norway.


9k for 18 kWh is relatively decent, considering the claimed quality of these batteries.

But it's a lot of money for most people. And that price had better be the final retail price to the consumer itself.

Those small sale volumes are not surprising at all. Expensive cars with behavioral limitations (range and speed) do not sell well in mainstream transportation.

As mentioned before, make it a serial plug-in hybrid with a smaller battery pack and make it faster as well, and it's a disruptive no-compromise car.

When is Altairnano going to stop fooling around?


I noticed that the price per watt is not specified in KWh. I hope that this is a typo. Does anyone know for sure?



You stated: "Altairnano bought a stake in Phoenix, so I would think they are pretty confident that it will go foreward."

I'm not sure that is correct. Although Altair is a minority shareholder in Phoenix, I don't believe they purchased their position. Rather, I believe that Phoenix traded a 16% ownership position for a guarantee that Altair would devote their battery production to Phoenix. That agreement, I believe, had significant escape clauses for Altair, allowing them to sell to others if Phoenix failed to meet their quotas in a timely fashion.


Tristan Wibberley

Most rechargable batteries are very bad for working out how much useful energy is left in them. How are Altair Nanosafe for this? Knowing when to pull in for a recharge is pretty important.


$2.0/W is expensive. You can buy a battery cell for less than $1.0 per watt right now from Changs Ascending, a Taiwanese LiFePo4 battery company. It is made in Taiwan, not made in China. You may directly contact to [email protected]


In the last Altair shareholder conference call. Altair remarked that battery cost/watt are approaching $1/watt and that $.30/watt could be reached in 2008 with ramp up. Since the batteries can be totally discharged without damage the power drop is somewhat smooth so an energy gauge is much more reliable than normal deep cycle cells. Altair website www.altairnano.com has pages on the battery performance.

Cam Ellis

For Go Green, the most important aspect of the day trial was to look at the performance of the battery under realistic charge/discharge situations. We monitored the cell voltage and temperature during this trial and given that we are driving a prototype vehicle (combination of vehicle, BMS and battery), we were pleased with the results. Areas of improvement would be better air circulation throughout the battery pack and also a simple cell balancing algorithm for the upper portions of the charge curve to exploit the battery potential to the fullest. Beyond that, we were very pleased with the combination of the car and battery. Our focus is to develop an infrastructure that will support these technologies and from within the threshold of our research, Aerovironment, Altairnano and Micro Vett seem to be the most tangible partners to make this happen in the short term with a view to continuity.

911 student

All this concern over alternative energy storage/delivery is admirable, but how come no attention's ever been paid to the ""Ground Zero"" piles which 'burned' for 99 days despite constant dousing with water (along with other signs of the presence of a tremendous energy surplus @GZ)?

The presence of so many nanoparticles in all that 'dust' is very revealing, and that, too, has gone ignored...

How come seemingly nobody wants to know where all that energy came from?


911 Student:


We don't mind if you choose to exist in a parallel universe. Go for it. But, could you turn your telescope toward some other blog that might be a more appropriate place for the dissemination of your views?

Many thanks for stopping by.

Dave Narby

Chan6372 - You guys need a better website!


Altairnano batteries may drop in price rapidly. From their most recent financial webcast they are developing a 10MWH battery with AES. If AES adds these boxcar sized batteries to the grid 35KWH batteries are sure to drop under $10K then Phoenix will not need CARB credits. Altairnano is positioning itself for rapid ramp up too. Don't talk about replacing batteries either. They are good for thousands of charges at all but extreme temperatures. Rated at better than 250,000 miles. Now if only GM would take notice!

Oscar Hayes

I wonder when and if Altair will offer modular batteries at 4 to 5 KWH per module. They seem to have a 9 KWH size as well as 18 and 35 KWH. That is close to what might be needed. If so, what would the voltage for each size be? The Chevy volt seems to want 350 Volts. Surely the lighter weight and lower cost for the 4 or 5 KWH battery would fit well into a plug-in hybrid like the Chevy Volt aimed at a 10 mile All Electric range application. Toyota is close with a new PHEV version 2.6 KWH NiMH battery, 8 miles AER at twice the earlier Prius size. Of course Li-ion is more weight efficient. When they are plug-in, the energy efficency goes up dramatically for short range days.

Las Vegas DUI Lawyers

Is there and update to this story? The NICE car company was on shaky grounds, the tesla is now in production, and phoenix is still farting around.

oilfield equipment

this is such a great car. i wonder if they are going to push this vehicle.

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Batteries/Hybrid Vehicles