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« Are Ethanol Pipelines a Good Idea? | Main | Who Need Wires? »

June 06, 2007

Comments

debbie anglin

For those who want to learn more about other alternative fuel sources; The Governor of Oklahoma will Grow: the Governor's conference on Biofuels in Oklahoma city from October 16-17. Registration is only $45. For more information or registration visit www.GrowOK.com

Mark C R UK

I was reading this last week from CE&N and about a group along with the ACS members who went down to Brazil and discussed and viewed some of the infrastructure in question.

Facinating.

I look forward to working with Brazilians, Americans, Europeans, Chinese, Indians - whoever! This is an enomous area with scopes for spin offs - this shows the international effort and scope going into it with many nations able to bring specific advantages and benefits to the table!

Kishore Hari

Professor Dan Kammen at UC Berkeley published a study in Science comparing the energy and GHG outputs from several sources. That's not really that novel, but what I found exciting was the model used. They call it EBAMM (http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/). It takes into account science, economics, and social issues. Integration of social costs is underutilized in establishing viability of many of these fuels.

Check out my analysis of the Science article here

I host a Science Cafe, called Down to a Science, in San Francisco every month. Last month, Dan Kammen came to speak about Biofuels. Check out the video on my site as well as on Youtube.

GreyFlcn

The question being.

Why Cellulosic Ethanol
When you could do Fischer-Tropsch BioButanol

Beek

OT:

Cobasys just got shafted. Yippieee

GM seems to have dropped Cobasys/A123 in favor of Continental/A123 for the Volt.

Also: My understanding is that A123 cells do not overheat. So why is Tesla struggling with cooling the battery pack? Aren't they using A123?

Cyrus

Beek:

A123's cells do not overheat catastrophically, bursting into flame as the current generation of lithium ion cells do if you let them get too hot. But there's still a lot of current going through that system, and since there is electrical resistance inside the battery, the battery does produce heat. And even if it doesn't burst into flame, most batteries do perform less efficiently when they are hot.

Mark C R UK

GreyFlcn:
"The question being.
Why Cellulosic Ethanol
When you could do Fischer-Tropsch BioButanol"

Biobutanol isn't via FT.

Because even the best FT catalytic systems are only 60% efficient in terms of primary energy requirements.

Biobutanol/cellulosic ethanol are part of the 2nd generation Biorefinery (based on aqueous chemistries)

BTL via BFT.... is a separate - but equally important area of the Biorefinery.... for where transportation of liquid products are an issue amongst other things.

For example - I am consulting in biodiesel.

Lubricity is an issue in diesel based on FT since it is ultra low S .
Biodiesel improves the lubricity of the petro-diesel when blended correctly (and when of sufficient quality).

Here you see - both sides bring important advantages to the energy mix - whilst neither is going to attain 100% market share.

Each will (and could with improving technology) reduce the lifecycle CO2 emissions.... with additional benefits when used with (on board reforming)-next generation fuel cell powered automotives.

Hope you understand the picture I'm painting?

Regards,

Mark


marcus

Beek I think the energy density of both A123 and Altairnano are lower than what Tesla want. Price may also be a factor.

Beek

Marcus, the new A123 cell 32157 has 20% more energy density than the older A123 cells (26650).

Standard LiCoO2 cells are 200 Wh/kg, the 32157 is 120 Wh/kg. Its getting there.

Tesla is still using ordinary (laptop) Li-ion, and now has to cool them and guard against fire. They should immediately move to the huge 35 Wh cell 32157, and if the price is too high, then reduce range from 200 miles (50 KWh) to 120 miles (30 KWh).

Tesla has got it wrong. They will be spending a lot of money on cooling and liquid radiators and pumps and fire retardants, and interconnecting and balancing 7000 tiny cells, etc., and just adding weight to their cars.

They are not forward looking enough.

GreyFlcn

The Tesla model though I view as more of a "Proof of Concept".

Frankly, I look towards Phoenix Motors, powered by Altair batteries as a far better solution.

Especially since Phoenix is actively persuing Series Hybrids, where as Tesla is avoiding them.

Not to mention, 96 mile charge in 1 minute is pretty sweet.
http://www.greyfalcon.net/quickcharge
http://www.greyfalcon.net/quickcharge2

GreyFlcn

Actually cost isn't really the issue either.

Hell, Phoenix's SUV will be one of the cheaper electric cars on the market, sporting 150 mile range, and a ~$29,000. (Assuming the $6000 federal rebate)

http://www.greyfalcon.net/phoenixsuv.png
http://www.greyfalcon.net/truck

Paul Dietz

while the cost of producing enzymes has fallen 20-fold in the past four years

This is ignoring the possibility of using non-enzymatic approaches to converting the cellulose to sugars. For example, Bluefire's concentrated sulfuric acid hydrolysis approach. The non-enzymatic approach is much more forgiving of variations in the feedstock composition and doesn't suffer from poisoning of the enzymes or substrate inhibition.

medvegonok

Great! Now we can replace Bush in the last picture here - Promised technology by ... who is the Brasil's president now? :)

Mark C R UK

Recovery of the sulfuric acid and neutralisation of the resulting product are both issues....

Enzyme active sites could serve as models for synthetic catalysts....

Personally, the acid hydrolysis approach has yet to prove its commercial viability to me - due to the higher number of reaction steps and separations involved....

Jimmi

GreyFlcn...

Although I am a fan of Phoenix and ALTI it seems their fate is in the hands of CARB atm. I remember reading somewhere that CARB may change the ZEV credit structure which may cause an ill effect to Phoenix. Can't find the link but here is a link where ALTI, Phoenix, Telsa, and some other EV influenced companies testified before CARB.

http://www.evworld.com/evworld_audio/arb_altair5testimony.mp3

It's a shame the hurddles EVs have to go through to make the world a better place. It's even more of a shame that the one board that should be helping them may set ALTI back 10+ years and possibly kill Phoenix Motor Cars. We'll just have to wait and see.

GreyFlcn

Actually they appear to be planning to change the ZEV credit structure to benefit EVs again, and specifically focusing on ways to benefit PHEVs in excess of common hybrids.

For instance Fuel Cells uses to get 10 credits, where an EV would only get 1.
They are bringing that back to a 1 to 1 balance, making it so that FCs have to compete head to head with EVs.

But yeah I don't know if they've set any new policy in stone yet.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/05/california_arb_.html

Paul Dietz

Recovery of the sulfuric acid and neutralisation of the resulting product are both issues....

They've demonstrated chromatographic acid recovery at the pilot scale for some years now. Presumably, the waste-to-ethanol plants going in now using their technology will prove it at a larger scale.

ティファニー 激安

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国内初のティファニー ウォッチ専門店となる同ショールームには、新作ウォッチがいち早く店頭に並ぶだけでなく、さまざまなフェアやイベントも開催される予定となっている。時計の専門知識を持つスタッフにより、利用客の要望にもきめ細かく対応するという。ティファニー 激安
同ショールームでも販売される「アトラス ジェント スクエア クロノグラフ」は、最高のムーブメントとして広く認められるフレデリック?ピゲ製自動巻キャリバー1285を搭載。さらに頑丈な40mmのステンレス スティール ケースとスポーティなデザインにより、毅然とした男の魅力を演出している。Tiffany ネックレス
「ティファニー ジェメア」は、18カラットのホワイトゴールドで作られた樽型のケースが特徴で、たくさんのダイヤモンドを散りばめた宝飾時計に仕上がっている。ダイヤモンド1列のモデルとダイヤモンド2列のモデルのほかに、時計の表面に610個のダイヤモンド(3.12カラット)を敷き詰めたフルパヴェのモデルも用意。Tiffany locksこれらの3モデルを、直径22mm / 18mmの2パターンで展開する。ティファニー
その他、ショールームのオープンを記念し、日本初登場となる「ステートメント ウォッチ」「5thアヴェニュー ウォッチ」なども特別展示されるティファニー
アメリカを代表する世界のプレミア?ジュエラー、ティファニーは1837年の創設以来、時を越えて多くの人々を魅了してきた。ティファニーのジュエリー、シルバー、ウォッチ、そのデザインの数々は何世代にもわたって世界中で愛され続けている。ティファニー 通販

生薬

生薬

アバクロ

アバクロ

RMT

RMT

ビルケンシュトック

ビルケンシュトック

Real Estate in Vietnam

As I understand it, Brazil's ethanol industry poses little threat to rainforest, as sugar cane does not grow well in the same soil types and climatic conditions. The threat that I have seen mentioned is the conversion of U.S. soy crops to corn crops, which has driven up the demand for imported soy - largely from Brazil, and rainforests are very much at threat from soy production. However it's hard to find verifiable facts from reputable sources on the issue.

モンクレール

At the same time, Brazil already has much of the logistical infrastructure in place to collect the excess sugarcane mass, or bagasse, which will also cut down on initial costs, said Helena Chum, a senior adviser at the U.S. National Renewable Energy Lab.

アバクロ

e time, Brazil already has much of the logistical infrastructure in place to collect the excess sugarcane mass, or bagasse, which will also cut down on initial costs, said Helena Chum, a senior adviser at the U.S. National Renewable Ene

レディースブーツ

The threat that I have seen mentioned is the conversion of U.S. soy crops to corn crops, which has driven up the demand for imported soy

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