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June 05, 2007

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Rod

Symko states an initial efficiency of 20-25% heat to energy.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32323/113/

The military application is aircraft radar and there is a commercial application in development for harnessing waste heat:

http://goed.utah.gov/COE/documents/AcousticCooling.pdf

Green Assassin Brigade

Here's a link about the same technology being used to convert wood stoves into refridgeration units and recharging stations for Bangledeshi peasants.

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/stove.html

The articles never specify how much heat is needed to create the vibrations.

A blow torch is hotter than most industrial waste heat, what is the temp requirement of these techs?

Gent

The following suggest the temperature delta must be greater than 90 degrees fahrenheit.

http://www.physorg.com/news100141616.html

I've yet to see any discussion on what the thermodynamic limit is for conversion efficiency of heat to sound.

-Gent

donb

The theoretical upper limit of conversion efficiency of heat to sound is the same as it is for conversion of heat to mechanical or electrical power:

Efficiency = (T hot - T cold)/T hot

There must be a heat source and a heat sink for conversion to take place. These are the T hot and T cold. Note that the temperatures are absolute temperatures (kelvins or degree Rankin).

To get kelvins, add 273 to °C. To get degrees Rankin, add 460 to °F.

So given a room temperature of 70°F (530°R) and a heat source 90° hotter at 160°F (620°R), the maximum amount of heat that could be turned into sound (mechanical energy, electrical energy) is (620 - 530)/620 = .145

That is, at most 14.5% of the heat could be converted. The other 85.5% of the heat is still heat exiting into the 70°F ambient.

In the real world, conversion efficiencies are always lower.

Thomas Marihart

Thermoacoustics is not new.

LLNL and Sandia have been each tinkering with the concept...but mainly for cooling and GTL applications.

The problem with combining thermoacoustics and piezoelectronic power generation is scale.

It may work driving small voltages, but getting it to produce the power levels needed for anything beyond consumer/small devices might prove problematic.

mtburr

Interesting idea. But one thing this story doesn't address is noise. I realize the point of the piezoelectric unit is to capture the sound waves, and therefore eliminate as much noise as possible. But isn't "leakage" inevitable? And if so, do you really want a noise generator to cool your computer or military-radar system?

Ken

Turning heat into electricity, especially from relatively small temperature differences, sounds worth pursuing but doing so cost effectively seems to be an ongoing problem. 90F degrees difference is still large and a lot of energy will go to waste. Using waste heat makes sense but we should be using those simple forms much more - heating water, heating and cooling buildings. Design, incorporating energy efficiency from the ground up could yield greater gains than thermo-acoustics.

casey

Does anyone want to offer details of what they think a system using solar energy as the energy source would look like with this technology. Thanks

Michael Crumpton

"90F degrees difference is still large"

I don't know what you are comparing that to, but power generation stirling engines typically use a temp difference of more than 500° F, and the solar towers that use steam turbines are way more than twice that.

This is the perfect energy scavenging tool. the waste heat coming out of a furnace or water heater stack or even a car exhaust pipe is a whole lot hotter than 160° F and when it is cold outside the greater temp difference makes even more energy available.

The big advantage of this tech is that it is cheap to make. A generator consists of a hollow tube with a ceramic grid that absorbs the heat, a moving coil on a diaphragm(like a loudspeaker coil) and a magnet, and that is just about it.

Even the materials are cheap. The tube could be made of almost any material: metal, concrete, conceivably even wood, and there is almost nothing to wear out, no cranks, no bearings, no complicated electronics.

What this tech lacks in efficiency it more than makes up in cheapness, reliability and simplicity, and with time the efficiency will improve.

As far as energy sources are concerned, an 8' parabolic dish can make a focal point hot enough to make a 2x4 burst into flame instantly (1500°+ F). Even if the efficiency of this gadget is only 15%, that is useful power, especially if you can heat your hot water with the 85% of the heat that is not being turned to electricity.

kim

what about the noise pollution?

Green Assassin Brigade

The article I posted on about this use for woodstoves mentioned that if the tubes were rigid enough the noise was limited to a slight hum, The more flex the tubes have the more they transmit the noise outward and away from the coil, creating quite a din and lowering efficiency.

The main article talks about rings(donuts) as one option where the noise does not reflect back from flat ends but continues around for mutltiple passes of the coil.

Without rigidity and insulation they apparently create well over 100 db.

Doug W

Casey,

Just imagine coupling this technology with Sterling Energy System's parabolic dish setups or a parabolic trough that heats a fluid.

Ken

Michael, I still think 90F is large, even if most heat engines use higher, but Stirling engines can and do run at lower differences, (according to Wikipedia, as low as 14F degrees), perhaps with lower efficiency. When it comes to waste heat, lots of it is less than 90F above ambient. Above that, if it's going to waste, it truly is wasteful. Still, if thermo-acoustics can find applications, or be significantly improved, thats only positive. In the meantime there is a lot of waste heat that doesn't need advanced technology to be put to use.

Michael Crumpton

Some Stirling engines can run at even less than 6° F, but these engines have outputs in the low milliwatt (1000th of a watt) range, so they are essentially toys, or physics demonstrators. The problem with extracting energy from low temp differential sources is that there is not a lot of power there, or the power is so diffused that the mechanism to harvest it needs to be huge.

For a 90° temperature differential generator to be cost effective you would need a lake of it, and a cheap (non energy consuming) way to move it quickly past your engine.

RML

Los Alamos has been working on this technology for several years. http://www.lanl.gov/mst/engine/
Ben and Jerry's ice cream also did a thermoacoustic refrigeration demonstration several years back.
I'm hoping that Symko isn't trying to take credit for "knovel" idea when it's already been reasonably well developed. Hopefully he finds a good application for an interesting physical phenomenon.

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