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April 22, 2007



Great press release. By the year 2050 there will be 75 variation of the E Flex shown at auto shows, but not one car in a real dealer show room.


A company run by car salesmen, lawyers, and accountants. What can be expected when engineers and inventors are made into water carriers for a boardroom full of the technologically illiterate?

Another pie in the sky hydrogen auto show car.

That first 40 mile plugin range Volt looked pretty good. It looked like GM was trying to change and actually compete. This proves it was just hype. American auto industry RIPs...pieces all over China.

Peter S. Hunt

I just wonder if GM can stay out of the grave long enough to bring any of their claimed dreams to market at a realistic price.

They sure haven't much of a record to strand on with regard to innovation. Waht wasthe last thing they drempt up and brought to market? The electric starter? or was it the hydromatic?


We're gettting there. 35 miles per lb of hydrogen. Now we're down to needing just 300 new nuclear power plants so we can drive our 2.4 trillion vehicle miles per year.

Hydrogen fuel cells: The tail that wags the dog.

The US has only 103 nuclear power plants now. The US doesn't have the money or time to chase the hydrogen fantasy. When will the public quit being lied to?

kit p

Harrison, it does not take much money to chase a fantasy and issue press releases. While H2 fuel cells were DOA, the environmental activist community did not learn to learn to hate the concept until George W discussed in the state of the union.

Modular High Temperature Gas Cooled Reactors will need to be developed and commercialized. This will be expensive but the cost will be shared by many countries.


re: Harrison
--When will the public quit being lied to about Hydrogen?--

Likely sometime around the end of 2009 when plugin cars are firmly on the road with 10 minite or less recharge times.


I don't know what's more shameful for GM, producing two hydrogen Hummers for Arnold Scwharzenegger that had a range of 60 miles on 12 lbs of hydrogen, or keeping up the fantasy with this Volt thing.

Some one shoot GM and put them out of their misery. I used to have sympathy for Detroit back when the Japanese ate their lunch two/three decades ago, but not now ... Fool once, fooled ....

Back to the Future: Trains.


Or let the Japanese, California, and Germany do electric cars right.

Trains only make sense as a means of fighting urban congestion, or as an alternative to air travel.


Grey, Yes. And trains for freight too. Get the killer semi tractor trailors off the road.


::Trains only make sense as a means of fighting urban congestion

Yes, and they tend to do a fine job, when executed right. Visit Singapore or Kuala Lumpur some time. Their monorail/light rail system is so damn fast and convenient method of transport which reaches practically everywhere, that there is rarely need for a cab. In Singapore, something like 50% of population use the mass transit system every day.

Chin Hsien

I am also from Singapore...
The mass transit here is indeed quite convenient.
Besides, how's direct methanol or direct ethanol fuel cell? I have read a paper claiming that a excellent Proton Exchange Membrane (PEM) has been developed and is going to be commercialized.


Before dreaming of Singapore's mass transportation, be ready to say adios to Macmansions and to live in crammed & crowded urban spaces. BTW, in Singapor subways, chewing gums is forbidden, lol.

Train, as fast as it could be is a dead end as soon as travel times surpass 4, 5 hours and cost taxpayers a fortune (we have high speed trains in France and I know what it's all about). It's just like motivational programmes sold by costly consultants. Those who haven't experienced it love it. Those who have love to hate it.

Greg woulf

I think you all are way off on this one. GM is taking the right path. Flexibility is the key.

They've shown a gas/ethenol electric version in the U.S. Where gas is still big, and a fuel cell version in China where there's a huge push to build nuclear plants with Hydrogen producing capability. They have plants under construction that will more than double their national output. When they go to Europe it'll be diesel and when in Brazil Ethanol.

This flexibility will give them some wiggle room to adjust to new advancements in technology.

Too many people hate GM thinking they killed the electric car when all they did was make good business decisions as far as the EV-1 went.

Their problem isn't Hybrid cars, it's all cars. If the Prius had never come out they'd still be behind the Eastern car companies and losing market share. The fuel mileage on the whole fleet lags, the quality lags and the cost doesn't lag.

Hate is something I don't think we can afford in the U.S. We need to at least give our own companies a fair shake. If any other car company made a prototype like this the reaction would be positive.

Don Scherer

"The E-Flex fuel cell variant also showcases GM's third-generation wheel hub motors, packaged inside the rear wheel to add considerable torque for all-wheel electric drive capability. The new coreless motor technology reduces mass and produces more power compared to the first generation shown in 2003."

Now that the 3rd generation motor has been introduced, can someone tell me where the first and second generation GM wheel hub motors were ever used, or sold, or evaluated by third parties? Are GM's electric motors available for purchase? Or are they simply "showcased"?

Greg woulf

I remembered the first and found a link:


I'm not sure where the 2nd generation went.


The E-Flex fuel cell variant also showcases GM's third-generation wheel hub motors
Does it, really ? Is it a running prototype, this time around ?
No really, does it run ? Where and when can i testdrive it ?

The Anonymous Poster

I hope GM doesn't consider this an improvement over that last concept vehicle. Fool cells? Great chance of production there. Wheel hub motors? I want to see the size of the suspension hardware to make that work.

Greg woulf

Wheel hub motors are common place. Just google it and find a dozen or more examples of working wheel hub motors.

The main drawback is that it adds to unsprung weight, which will affect handling. Using them in the back should minimize the affect on steering.

If anything it lightens the load for the suspension hardware.

I'm not a big fan of wheel hub more because I see it as more parts to break down, but they've been done.

Harvey D.

When sales and revenues go down, increase the PR budget.

Is the Volt (PHEV, BEV, Flex-fuel, FC etc) just another GM PR stunt to stay in the news and remind us to buy GM products?

Toyota, with a very different approach, seems to be doing much better.


Those in Cali, what's the price per lb. for hydrogen at one of your stations?

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Where can I find a list of street names in Shanghai, China that can be
cross referenced with their names pre-1949.

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