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January 20, 2007



"Their lithium ion polymer technology allows them to make batteries in thin sheets that can be stacked, folded or otherwise shaped to fit the desired form. This flexibility has enabled them to accommodate both small size applications like tablet PC’s and larger potential applications like electric vehicles."

This kinda reminds me of Electro Energy's battery... well the cell wafer construction not the bipolar part. And the battery performance seems less adaquate compared to the NanoSafe or the M1. I wonder what the price of these batteries will be. Nothing seemed to be mentioned in the article.

greg woulf

I think this looks great. The Power density and weight/power and that looks great on this page.

I haven't been able to find anything about weight or cost and I wonder about charge times and cycle life as well.

I'd say good luck to them, and wait for the numbers to come back in.


This might be a better investment prospect than ALTI Jimmi. I sense ALTI is under the thumb of Detroit and it's banking friends somehow? Just a feeling.

Why no wh/weight information? That is more important than wh/liter. Yep Greg why no charge time either?

Another mysterious company like Eestore? They are producing a vehicle now, so why not talk?


Found some numbers you guys might be intrested in, this is from a Green Car Congress article regarding the EV (MAya-100)...

"The Maya 100 uses a 40 kWh, 144V Electrovaya lithium ion superpolymer battery system that delivers a driving range of up to 230 miles (360 km) with a top speed of 80 mph (140 km/h). The batteries in the Maya are 100 Amp-hour modules purpose-built for electric vehicles only, and are designed to offer a 7-year calendar life with a cycle-life equivalent to 150,000 kilometers (93,225 miles) of operation.

On a 220V charger charging time is approximately 6-8 hours (overnight, off-peak charging). There is a 110V capability for opportunity charging. A rapid-charge option could be retrofit.

Electrovaya’s Li-ion superpolymer batteries presently offer an energy density of approximately 225 Wh/kg and 475 Wh/liter. The company has a research program underway to increase the cell energy density to beyond 330 Wh/kg and 650Wh/liter.

The Li-ion superpolymer batteries use a phosphate-based compound for the cathode, and a graphite/polymer anode. (Electrovaya uses a cobalt-based cathode for its mobile computing applications.) The company is targeting a cost of $270-300/kWh for the battery at moderate levels of production.

Pricing in the Miljobil deal is still confidential, but the current early adopter price in North America is US$70,000 for the entire vehicle, batteries and onboard charger."


This article clip was back in May 15, 2005. So one can only hope they reduced the price of the car under $70,000. Without a government sponsored program (like the US' ZEV credit) cost will be hard to bring down. If not, might as well buy a Tesla. They give no mention of spec improvements concerning charge time or life cycle. So one can only assume that this new "MN" battery will have similar characteristics as its previous 2 models. Like what DrX said... if you got it.. why not talk? I guess they just don't have it. I've been following the MAYA-100 for a lil while now and nothing regarding the 650 Wh/litre.

And DocX...

As far as ALTI is concerned... what I thought would be a long term investment, just may turn out to be a short term position. Can't pull out of ALTI just yet because profit projections for ALTI are still impressive. Not to mention Phoenix's vehicle is being rolled out in the US... the largest automotive market... not Canada (ZENN) or Greenland (MAYA-100). With the exclusivity agreement with Altair/Phoenix... profits for ALTI will be guarunteed for the next 3 years... I think I might pull out about when the ZEV credits expire. Until than... ALTI's balance sheets are going to look real nice barring catastrophic press releases. And I'll probally hold onto 500-1000 shares of ALTI on the off chance management can deal with a very very very rapidly changing market. As Electrovaya improved their battery models.. I'm sure ALTI will also. I've been ranting and raving about the Altair/Alcoa battery... but the more research I do on Electro Energy(EEEI)... I'm almost convinced the ALTI/EEEI RnD will bring in something real nice. Just read the other day... In-Q-Tel is part owner of EEEI. Those of you who aren't familiar with In-Q-Tel, got this discription from the EEEI site...

"In-Q-Tel is a private, independent, enterprise funded by the CIA. Launched in 1999, In-Q-Tel's mission is to identify and invest in companies developing cutting-edge technologies that serve United States national security interests. Working from an evolving strategic blueprint that defines the CIA's critical information technology needs, In-Q-Tel engages with entrepreneurs, established companies, researchers and venture capitalists to deliver technologies that pay out in superior intelligence capabilities for the CIA and the larger Intelligence Community."

It's no wonder why they get a bunch of government contracts. EEEI is agressively researching their new "High Density Bipolar Li-ion battery w/wafer cell construction"... lotta press releases regarding this in EEEI's site. Here's a lil about EEEI...

"In addition to lithium battery chemistry, Electro Energy focuses on the development and ultimate commercialization of a bipolar nickel-metal hydride (BP Ni-MH) rechargeable battery, for which seven U.S. patents and four foreign patents have been issued and for which three additional patent applications are in process. Since its founding, Electro Energy has developed and owns both the patented design of BP Ni-MH batteries and the patented production process for their manufacture. Electro Energy has produced and delivered prototype BP Ni-MH batteries for the U.S. Army (field radios and silent watch applications), NASA (satellites), Partnership for a New Generation Vehicle (hybrid vehicles), NAVAIR and U.S. Air Force (F-18 and F-16 Aircraft), National Institute of Health (NIH) (heart assist pumps), and the Department of Energy (DOE) (distributed energy and power quality), that have demonstrated performance advantages over existing technologies.

Electro Energy's Colorado Springs facility, Electro Energy Mobile Products Inc., acquired in 2003 from privately held Eagle Picher Technologies, is a supplier of Super NiCd's for U.S. Government satellite systems, and vented nickel-cadmium batteries for legacy military aircraft such as the B-52, B-1 and Cobra Helicopters and industrial products. The Colorado Springs operation is also developing thermal batteries and lithium batteries and will participate in the manufacture of BP Ni-MH products."

Like I said before... the race is on... profits can be made if you do your homework... and say goodbye to the automotive internal combustion engine =)


Great analysis Jimmi! I think ALTI is still worth a bet.

Now who makes the equipment used in mass production of all these thin film devices? Solar PV, nanotech batteries, and ultracaps?

Remember the silicon wafer and chip production equipment manufactureres in the late,great net bubble?


Hey DocX...

re: "Now who makes the equipment used in mass production of all these thin film devices? Solar PV, nanotech batteries, and ultracaps?"

If you look in the press releases of ALTI you'll find a few funds and ETFs that decided to invest into ALTI. That's probally why the market cap on ALTI is high relative to the amount of shares issued and their perceptive value. And probally why the revenue stream projected for 2007 is accounted for in the price of the stock... but the price of the stock has not included the revenue stream for either the high end projections of 2007 or overall projections of 2008.... damn I'm going off topic.. sorry.

Anyway looking at ALTI's press releases.. look at the funds/ETFs ALTI is apart of... go to those sites and look at the breakdown of companies in the funds/ETFs. Researching that you'll find the name of a company that manufactures equiptment for nano-tech companies. Than Google some of the info from that company and you may find some of it's competitors. Sorry I can't elaborate... you're going to have to do some homework yourself DocX.


Didn't know exactly where to post this so I decided to put this here. Jim... hope you post more on this for everyone to read up...

Got this from the A123 site...

"A123Systems Receives $40 Million Investment to Expand Product Portfolio and Scale Manufacturing of Hybrid and Plug-In Hybrid Batteries

Procter & Gamble's Duracell and A123Systems Collaborate on Future Products

Watertown, Mass. – January 25, 2007 - A123Systems, one of the world’s leading suppliers of high-power lithium-ion batteries, today announced it has completed a $40 million round of funding, bringing the total capital invested in the company to $102 million.

A123Systems will use these funds to scale its technology development and manufacturing capacity for plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) batteries, as well as to support the fast growing demand in the power tool, hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) and consumer applications markets."

As I said before... the race is on... Altair seems to be lagging again with A123 ahead by a nose.


Good stuff Jimmi, thanks.


Anytime bro!!!

Looks like A123 has the backing of 2 major Dow components... General Electric and Procter & Gamble. Altair better get their act together or will remain in the shadows of A123. But all good things need competition to drive the technology forward and bring costs down for the consumers. Duracell will always have EverReady as a competitor and in the battery market place... there are enough profits to sustain both companies. A123 will always have Altair as a competitor... I "HOPE" there is enough room in the nano-battery marketplace to sustain both companies. I got in at a pretty low price on Altair... now I'm just waiting for A123 to go public. I missed the Google IPO (initial public offering) and I haven't slept well ever since. I'm not going to miss the A123 IPO.. if it ever happens.


Not so fast, Jimmi, don't throw out all the ICE quite yet. You still may need it to get to Grandma's house.

First, let us see Big Electric - Little ICE market. (Maybe Lee Iacocca could give Andy Frank some tips on how to do an effective commercial spot, eh?)

Since I don't like da Prez making fun of my driving a golf cart, I certainly would like to see the advent of electric vehicles.

At some point in the near future, the prices of PHEVs probably will provide an impetus for the return of the Beijing Electric (formerly known as the Detroit Electric). Then, as someone else observed, you rent either a range extender or a plug-in hybrid to go to Disney World.

But, first, let's make sure that the model that predicts the Grid can take it proves correct. In the meantime, all the Automotive Engineer Association members can gripe to one another about unreasonable demands to develop efficient, little internal combution engines on short timetables. "If I had wanted to design lawnmowers, yadda, yadda, yadda..."

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