Plug-in Hybrids Stabalize Electric Grid

Technology Review has a nice roundup on the advantages of plug-in hybrids (PHEVs), pointing out how the vehicles could help stabilize the grid if they were charged during low demand periods. Some key excerpts from Technology Review:

Such a system could be further optimized by using smart chargers and other electronics. This system would include a charger that runs on a timer, charging cars only during off-peak hours. Researchers at Pacific Northwestern National Laboratory (PNNL) are taking this a step further with smart chargers that use the Internet to gather information about electricity demand. Utilities could then temporarily turn off chargers in thousands of homes or businesses to keep the grid from crashing after a spike in demand.

The next step would be to add smart meters that would track electricity use in real time and allow utilities to charge more for power used during times of peak demand, and less at off-peak hours. Coupled with such a system, the PNNL smart charger could ensure that the plug-in batteries are charged only when the electricity is at its cheapest, saving consumers money.

But what many experts are excited about now is a concept called "vehicle-to-grid," often abbreviated V2G. ... In this kind of system, each vehicle would have its own IP address so that wherever it is plugged in, the cost of the energy it uses to recharge would be billed to the owner. With the right equipment, the car could also return energy to the grid, giving the owner credit. Mock-ups of such systems have already been tested ...

I know some of this information is repetitive to some of my regular readers, but the importance of plug-in vehicles (and electric vehicles) to relieving our dependence on increasingly expensive liquid fuels is so crucial and the word must be spread to as many as possible. While I have said many times that conservation and use of renewables are very important this technology remains the cornerstone of The Energy Revolution.

Thanks to tip from Tyler at Clean Break. 

Comments

[Craig]

Hi Jim, some of your readers may like to take a look at 'The Electric Car Revisited':

http://www.celsias.com/blog/2006/12/21/the-electric-car-revisited

[amazingdrx]

Yep Jim, now we are getting somewhere!

The next step is V2G generation as well as storage. These concepts can't be repeated enough. Word needs to spread, I am not sure but I think I even heard our mighty leader mention V2G recently.

The internet control of the whole system, managing the power to and from electric vehicles, opens up the possibility of rolling out broadband wireless internet over the power grid. Another money saving, productivity boosting step forward.

[Engineer-Poet]

V2G generation makes no sense outside of off-grid and emergencies.  Vehicular powerplants are less efficient than stationary and will not use fuel as effectively.  They also require fuels which will have greater losses and cost more to make from renewable supplies than the fuel for stationary generators.

The fuel for PHEVs has one normal use:  running the vehicle beyond its electric range.  Anything else is just a waste.

[Nucbuddy]

Dr. X wrote: opens up the possibility of rolling out broadband wireless internet over the power grid.

Did you know that the word wireless normally refers to radio communication?

Broadband internet over the power grid (also known as broadband over powerlines, or BPL) is already possible. V2G has nothing to do with BPL.

[Engineer-Poet]

You expect "the amazing" to constrain his speculations by anything like logical relationships?  You must be new here. ;-)

[amazingdrx]

Yep radio waves, over the power grid acting as an antennae. Everywhere you go is only a few miles from the grid, so univerasal wireless broadband.

Internet control of all those V2G cars, trucks, and buses will need to run over the grid. Other internet suppliers like cable or phone cpmpanies will cost too much and are unreliable. As long as you need grid internet, why not supply wireless?

It all pays it's way that way, with customers saving money paying one bill for internet instead of separate bills for phone, tv, cell phone, wireless internet devices.

Other wise the internet control would be an added cost. Financial viability is important in a broad redesign of energy and communications grids.

V2G vehicles could feature solid oxide fuel cell/microturbines that run on biogas or natural gas in V2G mode and biodisel or diesel in driving mode. Grid backup would be from biogas converted to electricity at 75% and waste heat would be captured for heating.

[Nucbuddy]

Dr. X wrote: radio waves, over the power grid acting as an antennae.

Usually, that is done with AM radio. Which frequency bands were you thinking of?

[amazingdrx]

All of them. Run radio, tv, all broadcasting over the net, digitally. It is way past time to retire analog broadcasting. A titanic waste of bandwidth.

This system would be a step in that direction. At first it would only need a small portion of the spectrum. That would grow as people gradually stop using analog.

I would imagine local radio and tv would keep going for a long while, but wireless broadband would have enough space anyway because of more efficient use of bandspace.

The thing about the redesign of complete systems like this is they yield incredible productivity gains, but they also displace old industries like nuclear and fossil power generation, telephone, broadcasting, cable, cell phone, internal combustion transportation.

That disrupts the status quo power structure set into place with lobbying (bribery) by the corporations that own politicians. An informed public pushing grassroots reform through leaders who either overcome the corruption or (more likely)start taking bribes from new industries is needed to turn invention into progress.

[Engineer-Poet]

V2G vehicles could feature solid oxide fuel cell/microturbines that run on biogas or natural gas in V2G mode and biodisel or diesel in driving mode. Grid backup would be from biogas converted to electricity at 75% and waste heat would be captured for heating.

And here we have a sterling example of amazing unreasoning in action:

• He proposes that the primary power supply be from vehicles, which cannot be integrated with systems to use waste heat.  (They would also have compromises in efficiency and lifespan for the sake of lower cost, size and weight.)
• His backup power supply would be the system with none of those drawbacks.

That says it all.

[marcus]

"V2G generation makes no sense outside of off-grid and emergencies. Vehicular powerplants are less efficient than stationary and will not use fuel as effectively. They also require fuels which will have greater losses and cost more to make from renewable supplies than the fuel for stationary generators."

Engineer-poet, in V2G no gasoline is used other than that which would have been used anyway to drive to the vehicle owners destination. The cars are not used as stationary power plants with the motor running, they are used as energy storage units utilizing the battery energy only. It is a way for utilities to make full use of their capital when otherwise they would be turning generators off. At the same time it allows them to draw on stored energy reserves in times of peak overload. Hence they will pay vehicle owners a premium for this service.

[kent beuchert]

The smart charging idea is OK although hardly revolutionary. But the idea of tapping cars on the grid to get power from them is goofy. Every time a battery is drained, it reduces its lifespan. Any reduction in lifespan I'll get from driving, not from allowing the utility to "withdraw" electricity from my vehicle. Whoever authored this plan obviously doesn't know a whole lot about battery economics, at least prevalent battery economics. The future may present a different ballgame, but for now, that effect kills the whole idea of using
plug-in batteries as a cheap means for the utility to smooth out demand/supply imbalances. Of course, if there's much wind power in the system, the utility will need to do a heap of smoothing.

[Engineer-Poet]

Engineer-poet, in V2G no gasoline is used other than that which would have been used anyway to drive to the vehicle owners destination. The cars are not used as stationary power plants with the motor running...

You obviously did not read the comment to which I was responding.  You should be familiar with the amazingly clueless Dr. X by now, and the necessity of rebutting him lest the public be confused.

[amazingdrx]

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/212637/60

Hehehey, this'll get your goat.

[Engineer-Poet]

Why?  Looks like the authors did their homework (unlike someone I could point to).

[marcus]

Kent I think you underestimate people a little bit. Battery deterioration is an obvious concern and the premium that utilities would be predicted to pay is over and above the projected economic loss due to battery cycling. Of course its going to depend a little on battery type but in general this is taken into account. Check out this summary article.

http://www.udel.edu/V2G/docs/V2G-Cal-ExecSum.pdf

[marcus]

ps the degree to which a utility discharges your battery would be set by the vehicle owner. The whole scheme should be quite flexible.

[marcus]

Overall I would agree with Jim to say that V2G is potentially extremely important for clean energy. Its been calculated that by using V2G storage intermittent wind power could account for over 50% of total energy in the USA. Combine that with solar and other renewables and you start to get much closer to an ideal energy solution.

http://www.udel.edu/V2G/docs/KemptonDhanju06-V2G-Wind.pdf

[CM]

Trying to transmit broadband over power lines is a bad ides - there are millions of electrical noise generating devices large and small attached to the grid, transformers tend to filter out the signal, and long unshielded power lines lose signal strength and pick up even more interference.

Transmitting a low bandwidth signal works much better, and would be more than sufficient for the modest data rate required for power management and V2G purposes.

[PM]

Everybody should learn about electric cars as a solution. It’s amazing how far the technology has come. One of the main electric car companies, Zap, has delivered over 100,000 EV’s. (source: zapworld.com). EV’s cost 1 to 3 cents per mile to run, compare that to regular cars!

[Home Intercom Systems]

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