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October 16, 2006

Comments

Thomas

Whoaa! Wery cool!

Pressurizing the oxygen probably takes less energy than compressing the CO2 after combustion. Not least because conventional oxygen separation units operate very cold, which reduces compression power requirement.

However, as a boiler-engineer, I am curious as to how they plan to contain such large volumes of gas at such high pressure..? That would probably mandate smaller units, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Apriterra

Ok so what's the reality factor on this?

Why aren'y utilites falling over themselves to get this technology rolling?

amazingdrx

The reality? 40% efficiency (usual maximum for steam turbine electric generation)minus the 20% for separation and pressurization of the oxygen, equals a paltry 20% efficiency for the total conversion of coal to electricity from this system.

A coal fired fuel cell/turbine system has 75% efficiency.

Why aren't utilities and government favoring this much more efficient, much more cost effective technology?

Politics and corporate corruption is why. The Alaska congressional delegation is legendary in their pork procurement proficiency. The infamous Alaskan "bridge to nowhere" cost way more than the paltry few mill spent on this boondoggle.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/08/09/bridges/index_np.html

Paul Dietz

Pressurizing the oxygen probably takes less energy than compressing the CO2 after combustion.

Um, why? There will actually be more oxygen molecules than CO2 molecules (remember, coal contains some hydrogen), and CO2 also has stronger intermolecular attraction than O2, which will reduce the work required slightly.

Not least because conventional oxygen separation units operate very cold, which reduces compression power requirement.

That cold isn't free, and if it really helped, you could chill the CO2 as well before compressing it.

JJ

Ya, where's the dirt, what's the down side. This article completely ignores balanced reporting showing the good, the bad and the ugly. $2.3 million authorized for R&D is chump change if this process is so great. It seems that we should outlaw all dirty coal plants and replace them with this process. Something stinks in this process -- what it is??

amazingdrx

I overlooked the rankine generator for harvesting waste heat which might boost
the efficiency 20%, but it's still a long way to the 75% of the coal fuel cell with gas turbine.

And he waste heat from the fuel cell could yield another 10 to 20% with infrared PV cells added around the cells.

mcr

amazingdrx: "the 75% efficiency of the coal fuel cell with gas turbine."

Its actually 60%.

Which is still far more efficient (as you say - no moving parts in the fuel cell)

Don't get too carried away.

And yes - something stinks in the above - either that or I haven't read it properly.


http://www.jupiteroxygen.com
I read this a few weeks ago - another project that sounds very very very similar on first inspection.

It's always wise to describe the limitations of a technology... and this needs to be done here.

Udo Stenzel

No pollutants?! Are you completely nuts? How is something that, for every gigawatt-year in operation, dumps 200.000 tons of heavy metal laced dust into a pond or an open landfill considered "pollutant free"?

Jim from The Energy Blog

Udo-You have to assume that the operators of such plants are environmentally resposible and do not dump their solid waste into "a pond or and open landfill." I would also hope that before permitting such a plant, a plan for disposing of this waste was a condition for operation of the plant.

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