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May 20, 2006


Harvey D.

With their quick charge capability, these batteries could be a step in the right direction for future PHEVs and eventually, more practical EVs. Wonder what are the main reasons for the 2 to 3 years delay. Design limitations or integration problems to be solved?


3 years will give enough time for the new technology to be killed. That's my guess on the delay.

Detroit and the exxon mob do not want plugin vehicles. Fortumately Subaru is already road testing the similar Hitachi battery.

A123 is an MIT related company. MIT is under the thumb of the dark forces of lord cheney of Halliburton. That is why A123 will not specify the kwh per pound stored.

That would make it obvious that liquid fueled infernal combustion should die.

Why is Toyota fighting a plugin Prius? Threats from lord cheney's men.


They don't give as much information as I'd like either (I suppose because patents are pending, competition, etc) but power density is stated on their website as >3000 W/kg in the battery comparison chart: http://www.a123systems.com/images/charts/techCompare.jpg


I wish Crackpot Conspiracy Theories, (CCTs) had a measurable btu content, aside from the associated hot air which apparently functions as a propellant. Lord knows that CCTs are cheap and abundant. If we had an efficient means to turn CCTs into electricity, it would be too cheap to meter. With cheap, plentiful CCT electricity, Alcoa could turn out more aluminum foil for hats.


Yes, power density is clearly stated, >3000 W/kg, but what about energy density, Wh/kg?


Lord Cheney,cct's,foil hats,oh my god who needs the comedy channel.lololol


It's not funny earl! Hehehehey. Well laughing is better than crying.

But 3 YEARS!?! When US soldiers are trading their blood for oil? And even that is not working to control soaring energy prices that are devestating american families' finances.

And with the huge national debt rung up by these oil wars with the dollar now under attack as OPEC nations switch to euro dollars for oil trading.


Here is my latest guess and the reasoning behind it. Around 250 wh per kg.


Verified here:


Eminently practical to replace liquid fueled infernal combustion with the 5 minute charge to 90% feature.

Now must I measure the size of a ciggarrete pack, plugin the density of the A123 battery, and compare 10 of them to the capacity of the Prius battery?

I guess so.


Can anyone venture a guess as to how much more regenerative braking energy these fast recharge batteries can capture? And how that will affect the control system's discharge allowance point?


I may be the pessimistic type, but one might suspect that A123 don't state the energy density of their batteries because it's bad.

10 packs of A123 = 1 Prius battery = 1.3kWh

1 pack of A123 = 1 "small laptop = at least 1.3kg (Sony Vaio, one of the smallest)

1.3kWh / ( 10*1.3kg ) = 100Wh/kg

Oh, and the volume of one A123 pack is the same as a cigarette CARTON, not pack... Guessing around 30cm x 8cm x 5cm the carton, that makes 1.2 liters.
0.13kWh / 1.2 l = 108 Wh/liter

OK, these are all guesses and approximations... Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Harvey D.

Mitz: As most Li-On batteries have an energy density of 100 to 150 Wh/Kg; 108 would be in the low end. Li-Polymers are claiming 150 to 200 Wh/Kg and Electrovaya's as high as 280 to 300 Wh/Kg. Europositron is claiming 1330 Wh/Kg with their aluminium rechargeable battery but the prototype is not out yet.

Proven Higher energy density (above 300 Wh/Kg) seems to be the next challenge for all types of super batteries.


Great info Harvey! The links would be useful for further blogerel if you have them.

I'm sure hoping for upwards of 300 wh/kg for the A123 and Hitachi nano-phosphare 5 min chearge to 90% lithium ions.

But electric plugin cars are still going to be competitive in terms of range and power with liquid fueled internal combustion at 250 wh/kg.

And even with 60 cents per gallon equivalent to the government in taxes, the electric plugin will be running at the equivalent cost of $1.35/gal. That is with electric rates of 10 cents per kwh.

With home or coop based renewable energy that cost can come way down from there. All the way down to zero, excluding the road taxes.

Now to get mass production and cost reduction for these new batteries, solar PV, and wind power, similar to the price drop in computer chips over the years.

Harvey D.

It is still difficult to get 'proven' energy density (Wh/Kg or Wh/litre) for the new Altair, Toshiba and A123 quick charge batteries.

If someone has the info, could you post-it?


Going by this website it looks to be about 130 wh/kg for the A123 (if my math is correct). Mostly pictures but at least they post some battery stats.



hello all. first time posting to this blog. any blog, actually.

just thinking that you could get a good idea of energy density by hooking up one of those cordless tool batteries to some device with a known power drain and running it down to no charge. then take a nickel battery of the same type used in the prius and do the same for comparison.


off topic.

ok, sorry about this. i don't understand what url i'm supposed to put when posting and i think that caused the machine to label my post as being by jon. thatwas me, chris, posting for the first time. not jon. sorry jon.

carlos ramirez

I'mm interesting to know how exactly A123 system operate on any car.Example if i have any car from 2000 model or up...can I install A123 system? .note: i speaking about no hybrid car..simple car,full injection,etc etc.
Thanks for you information.
Who sale the system.?


You are a dumb a55. A123 produces batteries. Hence you can not put them in your car, assuming that yours is petrol based. If you wanted to you would have to pull the whole drive system out and design and build an electric system. If you are not an Electrical or maybe Mechanical Engineer, then you dont have the skills to properly design a system. I have seen armatures build simple systems which worked but they are not really properly designed, hence dont use good or efficient components.

It would be better to just buy a hybrid or EV because they will cost less than if you attempt to make your own.

A123 sells the batteries.


5-minute charge time is very impressive. Is that for the whole battery and how far does it take a vehicle on electric power alone?


nice view.

Toyota Camry


this is a nice view.

Toyota Camry

Eco Eagles

Our vehicle uses a hybrid battery pack. I am apart of Embry Riddle's Eco Eagles club. We are Embry Riddle's branch of the EcoCar challenge. We work to design, build and integrate solutions into an existing production vehicle. Solutions such as hybrid, plug-in hybrid and fuel cell drive train technologies will be explored. For further information visit www.ecoeagles.org

Bucket Truck

see what i think might happen is that company's like exxon and chevron will be buying out this technology's and taking them out so they can continue business as normal

Refuse Vehicle Repair

Buying a new car that consume too much gasoline can be a big matter, for most average people, it is important to buy a car that doesn’t consume too much gasoline, as it will help them to save a lot of money.


Hybrid cars take less maintenance than ordinary cars.
That is because they don't have fuel based corrosion.

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Batteries/Hybrid Vehicles