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March 24, 2006

Comments

amazingdrx

Great news Jim! I wish Toyota or Honda was developing these vehicles though.

It may never get off the ground this way. I suspect that is just what those in control of the capital allocation behind the project want.

larry cal tec

Sunday 4-9-06 Aol ran an article about cars and their fuels. it was advertized with an electric cord and a green car bio fuel car. however when reading the article the electric car was described as a lead acid battery functioned eco disaster. I was dumb founded and called aol and they gave me a web site to respond. It was one that had space aliens etc (my opinion) my feeling are this is and oil bid to retard developement of a sound answer to oil.

amazingdrx

http://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2005/8/24/1165553.html

Subaru is on the case with the Hitachi 5 minute charge nano tech lithium ion battery too. Good thing, this will keep detroit from killing it.

Frank

I have a question about lithium ion batteries. I've been looking into this, and these seem to be the most viable option for transportation energy. It doesn't look like we can replace gasoline as a fuel, and as far as storage goes, it seems that these batteries are much more realistic than hydrogen. I have a major question, though, that I haven't been able to determine through a few hours of research. My question is, how much lithium is in the world? Can it be mined in enough abundance to make this type of vehicle the standard? Does anyone know?

JesseJenkins

Frank, you have a good question there, one I've been starting to look into myself in the course of my research for my thesis project on alternative transport fuel options. Here's what I've found (and I'll look into this more soon):

This paper, Carrying the Energy Future, (an excellent one comparing H2 and electricity and showing why, in nearly every case, better alternatives to H2 exist) looks into just that question.

According to the paper, see pg 24, lithium makes up only 2% of the mass of a Li-ion battery. They go on to site two studies published in journals that I (and my university) unfortunately do not have access to, and reports that there is enough lithium in the world to make batteries for 2-12 billion cars.

These are the two studies cited (if anyone finds them, please email me a pdf of them! I would really appreciate it!):

-Will, F. G. “Impact of lithium abundance and cost on electric vehicle battery applications.” Journal of Power Sources 63.1(1996): 23-26.
-Andersson B. A., and I. Rade. “Metal resource constraints of electric vehicle batteries.” Transportation Research Part D 6.5 (2001): 297-324.

Considering that there are about half a billion cars in the US right now, there seems to be enough lithium out there to make enough EVs sufficient for a real solution to replace petroleum fuels. [The eventual use of carbon-based nano-engineered ultracapacitors, like those MIT is working on, could be the end-game for EVs as carbon is, for all intents and purposes, inexhaustable]

Contrast this to hydrogen fuel cells which rely on the very rare precious metal, platinum, as a catylist. Reducing the amount of platinum in PEM fuel cells, the cost of which currently amounts to a significant portion of total fuel cell costs, would be necessary to assure adequate supply of the rare earth metal to manufacture enough fuel cells for half a billion cars. Obviously, after that, extensive recycling would be necessary (although this would be the case with lithium too).

Hope that helps. Anyone else, please post additional comments along this thread here and/or email them to me. Cheers...

amazingdrx

Thanks Jesse, good information! More ammunition in the fight for renwable electric power to halt global climate disaster.

Aryeh Lin, Ph.D.

1.Electric cell is not a substitute to fossil
fuel, since it only stores electric energy,
not producing it
2.Electric cell has self discharge which is
equal to waste of energy
3.Imagine how much energy is invested in
producing all those "energy savers".
4.I myself have a patent on Lithium anodes
which have better mAh/g (10% reversible Li)
than current (US 5283136), and some newer
ideas..if anyone is interested.

Kit P.

JesseJenkins, good link. If you look at Figures 4-6, the best choice is not some form of EV. The best choice to reduce ghg is using renewable energy and nuclear to replace coal and NG. In the US, PHEV and EV will increase ghg. There may be other benefits of EVs, but your link discusses only which choice is worse for ghg. It is rally not a LVA because it only discusses inventory and not overall impact for numerous different environmental issues.

Look for a LCA that considers a regular new Corolla. Boring but better!!

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Batteries/Hybrid Vehicles