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    Jim


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December 01, 2008

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Comments

dave

I am so glad you are back. I love this blog.

Robert Pritchett

This a perfect example of why government should stay out of the business of business. Government "Mandates" take the fun out of doing business. When did we become Russia?

Ethanol production is still below zero sum. It takes more energy to produce and provides less fuel mileage than petroleum-based products.

Petroleum products can no longer be considered "non-renewable", as shown by technologies that can produce real petroleum (not biofuels) from organic waste in a matter of minutes vs. millennia.

We have proof at peswiki.com

Kit P

One of the things I find fascinating about energy issues is the list of unfounded reasons people come up with to be against something that works. The more impractical something is, the more they like it. So let the list begin:

-Food vs Fuel
-Subsidies
-Mandates
-EROI
-energy content.

Nobody is going hungry because American farmers are producing corn to supply 10% of the gasoline/ethanol mix. The only problem American farmers had with productivity is lack of market. American farmers are not longer having corn subsidized, now they are paying taxes.

The amount of energy in

Having a small mandated market only takes the fun out the market if you are OPEC or Russia and can not lower prices to drive ethanol out of the marker. Ethanol producers are paying property taxes and income taxes. New ethanol plant have good energy return and improving. The Mead Nebraska ethanol facility that we have discussed previously at the Energy Blog is a good example.

The amount of energy in a BTU of ethanol is the same a BTU of gasoline. Since we buy gasoline by volume mpg may be lower unless ethanol is efficient in the car you drive.

bigTom

This an egregious example of our political system being unable to back off of a bad policy. Let me begin by stating the primary and secondary motivations for the corn ethanol program:

(1) The primary purpose is to artificially stimulate the demand for corn in order to drive up its price. As a number of politically well-placed individuals can benefit from high corn prices, this has carried the day.

(2) The secondary purpose is greenwashing for Detroit. Alternate fueled vehicles get a pass on the CAFE requirements, and the public can be fooled by the greenwashing PR as well. Ask yourself how well has this worked out for our automobile industry?

Kit may be right, that no US citizens have starved because of this program, however motivation number one (higher corn price) has been achieved. Corn prices are a huge issue in rural Mexico. But since the lives of brown non-english speaking people don't count, I'll rest my case.

Corn requires a great deal of fertilizer. Even with massive fertilizer inputs, farmers must rotate corn with other crops, due to soil exhaustion. High fertilizer prices, have been a huge worldwide issue of late. Many developing world farmers cannot afford to fertilize their fields. Food shortages, and starvation, as well as impoverishment of the agricultural sector is the result.

We are trying to maintain our unsustainable thirst for liquid fuels, by doubling up on our practice of unsustainable industrial farming. Long term this is going to have disastrous consequences. World resources of fertilizer are being used up at a comparable rate to fossil fuel resources. Unlike energy, food, and soil fertility are irreplaceable.

Whatever we do for bio-fuels (and I am convinced that they can play a small part in a sustainable future), we had better pay primary attention to the long tern sustainability of agriculture. If we fail in this endeavour, the future of humanity will include a die-off.

Cyril R.
Nobody is going hungry because American farmers are producing corn to supply 10% of the gasoline/ethanol mix.

I know I should feed the troll Kit P, but it's important to emphasize that using 100% of today's US corn production for ethanol production would yield only a 7% reduction in US oil use. That's not a great help. Claiming that this will not cause people around the world to go hungry is typical for Kit P since he is a US redneck, hopefully a dying breed. Seriously Kit, you should get abroad more often. A bit of travelling would do you good. And also, learn basic maths to see that corn ethanol isn't worth a lot of trouble. And learn economics 101 - demand and supply. As BigTom mentioned, the corn subsidies have increased global corn spot prices. People who earn thirty cents a day will not be able to afford to pay forty cents extra for their food. So, yes, they are starving.

I am not opposed to corn ethanol, however. Just opposed to the government subsidizing options that are scientifically proven not to make much sense, such as corn ethanol and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. If private investors want to invest in those options, let them. But the US has increased risk of bankruptcy and precious government money should not be spent on non-options.

Cyril R.
But since the lives of brown non-english speaking people don't count, I'll rest my case.

BigTom, while you may say such things with cynism, Kit P actually means it for real.

This group of rednecks is a serious impediment for good energy policy.

rick

I believe there was civil unrest in southern Mexico last year, in response to higher corn prices. So yes, some people are having a harder time putting food on the table for their families.

Kit P

“I believe ...”

That sounds like you have done a very good root cause analysis rick. Of course association is not causation. Cyril, bigTom, and rick are demonstrating my point about making up reasons to be against ethanol. Every world problem can now be blamed on US ethanol policy. Of course these world issues have been around for years and are very complex. It is also possible to find information.

Corn used for ethanol is feed corn and not grown for human consumption. When ethanol is produced, the energy is processed out and the animal feed remains. World demand for meat is increasing along with the cost of energy for agriculture. This has resulted in increasing commodity prices which are only a small part of the cost of food. Claims of increased world food prices are greatly exaggerated. Food prices have stopped their 60 year decline.

World hunger, racism, the environment, and government waste are all emotional issues. However, a systematic approach will allow one to properly evaluate an issue. Ethanol will be one of the great US success stories of US renewable energy.

Rick

@ Kit P

My analysis covered an angle you failed to address and ponder. I understand the corn in question is feed corn. Yet I never said Mexicans were vegetarians and relied upon it for direct consumption. Ever been to a Mexican restaurant? They like their beef, chicken and pork just as much as Americans do, don't they?. The hardship of being able to afford feed for your farm animals qualifies as a direct result of inflated corn prices.

Rick

One more thing to add. Hunger is an emotional issue? Ever been hungry Kit? So hungry, yet you could not afford any food? It's easy to take the approach of, 'hey, it's not in my country.' Would you like a few pictures from the food banks I volunteer at? Ever have a five-year old girl come up and thank you for giving her food? Yeah, right here in America.

Overcoming Laziness

"Ever have a five-year old girl come up and thank you for giving her food? Yeah, right here in America."

Shut up idiot. People going hungry has nothing to do with the national or global food supply, and everything to do with corruption and plain old human evil.

Are five year old girls no longer supposed to be polite? I got food from the food bank for many years, and I always said Thank You! I ate cheese out of those little green cans. I had to eat raw oatmeal, dry. My father worked in a food bank for many years.

Screw you.

david

I would like to comment on the ethanol industry, specifically about ricks comment. Yes as of now corn is made from feed corn, but what do you think is going to happen if ethanol becomes a major source of energy. Corn farmers grow corn to make money, once the Oil companies have to switch to making ethanol, which most people think will be the most likely course of actions, they will either buy the farmers off just like they do now for oil, or they will pay the farmers more money than the government does, not to mention the other problems, such as additional deforestation. As far as hunger goes we have no one to blame but ourselves for that one. 87 percent of the corn grown now is not edible in its current form. it has to be processed or fed to livestock to become edible for us. The government, in 2002, spent 3.8 billion dollars for subsidies in the top three tiers of the pyramid (ever wonder why they changed it) and only 178 million dollars in the bottom. The fact of the matter is there is no clean options. All biomass energies will require further deforestation. Solar energy,hybrid cars, and windmills require mining which is connected to acid drain off as well as a lot of other plans. So if you want to save the environment, the only option is to get rid of man made energy. This would be possible if people stopped worrying about world economy and just started worrying about themselves. no government, no economy, just survival

Cyril R.

Well, it would be better if we ate less meat. But some small amount of meat now and then is good for your health. So even poor people should eat some meat. They won't be able to afford it with this corn ethanol subsidy. So human health will diminish, morbidity increases.

This is not necessary. All that is required is: remove the corn ethanol subsidy. That's it. Stop throwing money at ineffective solutions, it hurts the long term energy future of everyone. Give more advanced biofuels a chance.

Cyril R.

David, everything we do has impact. The question is: what options are the least malevolent, the cleanest, the least likely to cause resource and environmental problems at scale, the least likely to cause conflict and inequity around the world, etc.?

Corn ethanol drops out almost immediately.

Rick

@ Overcoming Laziness

I don't understand the hostility. You say you were once the recipent of food bank services, yet you call me a moron for working in a food bank. If you were thankful then, you should be thankful people still volunteer their time to help others.

Kit P

Let me repeat, American framers increasing corn production is not causing any hunger. The reason is that there is excess capacity to produce corn.

“I don't understand the hostility.”

That is an expected reaction of a normal American male to cheap manipulation my other man rather than engaging in a logical discussion. So Rick, if you can identify a case of hunger where the root cause is the American farmer let me know. I will have my friend get right on it.

American are among the most generous people in the world, especially American farmers. There will even help delver it with the help of some of the sailors and marines I know.

“The fact of the matter is there is no clean options. All biomass energies will require further deforestation.”

David I have identified many uses of biomass where LCA can document large net improvement of using biomass using the correct technology to produce energy. These solutions will increase forestation and improve the health of existing forests.

PMatzen

The real reason corn prices went sky high last year was because of exports. We produced a record corn crop in 2007 that exceeded our previous record by 10%. It is true that we used 25% of our corn crop to produce ethanol, but we only consumed 5% of the corn crop. This is because only 20% of the food value is consumed in the ethanol process. This remaining corn product was fed to cattle and chickens and much of it was exported. That means we still had a record amount of corn to feed the animals. This means it wasn't ethanol that caused the high corn prices; it was the exports. In 2008, we used even more corn for ethanol production and the price of corn has dropped by more than half because exports have dropped in half. Cheaper corn; reduced exports; where are the starving children?

Cyril R.

There are various reasons why corn prices went up, but artificially boosted demand via subsidies was one of them. Speculation is another. Droughts around the world yet another, etc.

Apparently, a lot of people can't understand that an increase in price can and often does have multiple combined reasons. But you don't need a Ph.D. to understand demand and supply vectors. It's high school and college stuff. So it's kind of shameful that so many people can't grasp this.

University of Technology

Vote now on www.niy.nl/berend

The sustainable solution for the world!!!
Thanks!

Steven Earl Salmony

Anything and everything seems to be getting in the way of meaningfully discussing in an adequately reality-oriented manner the predicament that appears before humanity. This primarily and distinctly human-driven predicament is already visible, even now, on the far horizon.

If you please, your assistance is requested.

Seven days ago the "AWAREness Campaign on the Human Population" submitted an idea for how we think the Obama Administration could change America. It's called "Ideas for Change in America."

I've submitted an idea and wanted to see if you could vote for AND COMMENT on it. The title is: "Accepting human limits and Earth's limitations". You can read, vote for and comment on the idea by clicking on the following link:

http://www.change.org/ideas/view/accepting_human_limits_and_earths_limitations

Fourteen votes are been received so far. That is about 2 votes per day. If you agree, then vote. If you disagree, please comment. Of course, should you wish to vote AND COMMENT, please feel free to do so.

The top 10 ideas are going to be presented to the Obama Administration on Inauguration Day and will be supported by a national lobbying campaign run by Change.org, MySpace, and more than a dozen leading nonprofits after the Inauguration.

Thanks for any assistance you choose to provide.

Sincerely yours,

Steve

Steven Earl Salmony
AWAREness Campaign on The Human Population,
established 2001
http://sustainabilityscience.org/content.html?contentid=1176

Beek

Hope you get better and well.

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tedlow

There’s a great video on San Francisco I Am where hundreds of teens in the Bay Area ditched their video games at home and headed for the biggest green festival in the nation. The Festival was held in San Francisco and the kids learned AND taught one another about climate change and green jobs. Even Chuck D from Public Enemy was there.

You can check out the video here:

http://www.sanfranciscoiam.com/videos/c898d779b574

Vashi Ram Chandi

The following are a few suggestions featured for the consideration of those that might be interested in it for reference purposes only

It is to be noted that these suggestions are suggestions ONLY, they are very explicitly symbolic

in nature and CANNOT be implemented by Individuals / Organizations liberally, this needs a very

careful and stringent approach that is complying with the respective Laws and Regulations that

prevail in each concerned location that this might be considered.

The suggestions very STRICTLY NEED to be Approved by The Respective Authorities, The Respective

Departments that might be in charge of the concerned initiatives and ONLY when formally approved

and confirmed by the Respective Authorities / the Respective Departments that might pertain to

the concerned initiatives, could any further step(s) ever be considered of further

consideration, BUT NOT implementation, since this is for the Respective Authorities / the

Respective Departments to decide which is permissible or not, which is whatever, every decision

is strictly held with the Respective Authorities / the Respective Departments, so even if any

approval(s) whatsoever is obtained, it eventually remains at the sole discretion of the

Respective Authorities / the Respective Departments relating to the considered initiative to

respond to and even comment upon, since these suggestions are featured in good faith but are not

to be mis interepreted or taken for granted or relied / depended upon in any way whatsoever


IMPORTANT:-
Please kindly make note that the following details is / are NOT endorsed view(s) or suggestion

(s) for any action whatsoever;

The suggestions featured are ONLY an expression of a view point(s) that are being expressed in

good faith at this moment in time and it might be very much possible that each individual

endeavor might merit a more stringent, a more stronger and higher level of Responsibility and

effective guidelines and COMPLIANCE and ADHERENCE to certain Protocol, Rules, LAWS AND

REGULATIONS and other associated factors; So at any instance(s) any decision(s) / action(s)

taken by the concerned Individual(s) / Person(s) / Organization(s) remains entirely their own /

complete / total Responsibility.

NO warranties regarding the accuracy, completeness, reliability of any of the above details

featured are provided in any way whatsoever.In NO event whatsoever shall the author of this

article be responsible for damages of any nature whatsoever resulting from the use of or

reliance upon the information featured. The details featured herewith are in good faith BUT in

no way assure or guarantee any results / performances from what is sincerely Hoped for since

every action(s) / decision(s) taken by the concerned Individual(s) remains completely and

entirely the concerned Individual(s)/ concerned Organization(s) Responsibility and at their sole

discretion and risk.

Henceforth, this point of view should not be completely relied upon since you would have to

obviously take your own Responsibility in attending to each endeavor with Utmost Care,

Attention, Precaution, Caution, Due Diligence, Prudent Acumen, Time and Again Repeatedly with

Responsibility, Accountability and a host of various other factors that might be NEEDED to be

taken into very careful consideration and assessment accordingly; so Please kindly carefully

verify at each and every step(s), each and every detail(s) meticulously and diligently Please

with the Respective Authorities / the Respective Departments to who the concerned matter(s)

might pertain to. Thank You for your attention.

THE FOLLOWING ARE SUGGESTIONS ONLY:-


- Identifying sources of Renewable Energy

- Educating / Spreading the message relating to a conservative use of energy

- Reliance upon Wind Turbines

- Recycling of Waste

- Alternative Bio fuel sources / resources

- Hybrid / Electrical powered Automobiles

- Solar Power - Efficient Management and Utilization

- Further emphasize the importance of adopting and pursuing a conservative approach relating to

Global Warming / Effective Energy Consolidation and Resourceful Utilization

- Promoting commuting short inter city distances through Bicycle usage

- Holding periodic interactive / stimulating meetings relating to effective / responsible energy

conservation

- Rewarding appropriate initiatives taken through acknowledgement as well as encouraging as many

participants as possible to actively promote the objectives relating to resourceful energy

management and utilization

- Establishing think tank panels / study groups that consistently seek to identify innovative /

cost effective methods relating to energy conservation

- Promoting the Universal Objective that Energy saved, effectively harnessed and constructively

deployed is an Investment for the Universe

- As this has already been doing, continually promoting this powerful cause extensively to

ensure an more wider / comprehensive participation of all Countries Globally

- Ensuring the participants understand that through facilitation of a joint effort initiative

set, this would be an very wise and resourceful investment for all concerned

- Consistently sharing the very same Ideals / Values / Beliefs / Vision / Objectives relating to

effective energy conservation and utilization consistently

- Taking steps to ensure a Responsible establishment of parameters / boundaries within which the

scope of framework relating to energy conservation is pursued since every good cause in though

and deed merits a reciprocation of goodness obviously; provided the concerned initiatives are

respective Nature and no excessive steps are taken on the pretext of the captioned; all measures

witin measure and within reason and objectively and responsible accountability

- Seeking to promote setting up of a time table / a guide book / a quick check list / fact sheet

/ reference brochure that could easily communicate the various tips relating to energy

conservation in a simple language, thereby reaching across to the masses instead of appearing to

be Global but not being able to reach across sentimentally to the Locals in their respective

locations

- The above simplification process / making the publishing of the suggestive guide lines in a

very simple and easy to understand basis would be accomplishment of a very powerful agenda since

it would be virtually having majority of the most important participants; namely People all

across the World pursuing a healthy competition

- Having the above Competition would thereby lead to each Player participating in a full fledged

manner thereby equipping the cause with more powerful and resourceful set of much needed results

- Seeking opinions from People all across the World in all Industries; in all Sectors to ensure

that this is cause propels forward with a powerful vision of aligning the objective of effective

energy conservation

- Regarding energy efficiency; seeking to further promote the values and principles relating to

this more intensively by educating People that this is an objective with a specific agenda and a

time frame that needs to be acknowledged and necessary actions taken appropriately

- The belief, the expectation, the cherished hopes, the joint efforts of all Countries all

across the World coming together for Universal Progress is the key factor, exchanging useful

information that relates to an effective energy conservation and effective utilization

consistently

- Summarizing the above, when having a more comprehensive participation on a Global Scale that

prioritizes the objectives; across all the respective platforms, this would ensure phenomenal

achievements; since for so many thoughts and deeds building a powerful vision to pursue would

enrich the complete process inspiringly, it would be a milestone by milestone considerably

- This statement is powerful since it begins with a rapid / direct and most effective process

which is ensuring efficient usage of energy; making this the predominant precedent factor of

crucial importance and an aspiring objective

- Then moving onto the next effective step, namely; conservation complimenting the effect

achieved by careful utilization of energy more resourcefully since after having wisely utilized

energy moving towards saving energy would be an encouraging approach; going from strength to

strengths; fortifying and consolidating the foundation wisely

- Subsequently having this statement followed with the mention of, doing more with less; also

being an advantageous factor since this would communicate the essential importance of what is

available on hand; this would not only create an effective symbolic value but make the

participant feel and believe that they are creating value with their participation, that means,

they are able to do much more with so much less and when comparing with their previous routines

would be amazed and inspired to seek to accomplish more, thereby doing more with less

- The above would be of course accompanied with observance and strategic implementation of the

various factors relating to resourceful energy utilization and conservation; utilizing

meaningfully; saving meaningfully and managing meaningfully

- This is a meaningful approach from all three angles namely; utilizing energy and energy

related resources meaningfully; saving energy and energy related resources meaningfully and

managing energy and energy related resources meaningfully

- The orientation of pursuance of a meaningful approach would set into practice and motion a

powerful set of effective results that could not have been previously envisaged , anticipated or

imagined since this would be establishing a platform right from the core competent factors

assimilating together their resourceful faculties in an synchronized alignment that would be

phenomenal and very resourceful

- Where ever there is participation of the World coming together for a purpose and this

objective being a very meaningful purpose; namely Energy Efficiency and Conservation - Doing

More with Less; this would enable achievement of more than just the above agenda alone, it would

be creating greater Good, Happiness, Harmony, Peace, Prosperity and Progress for The World

- The World definitely appreciates goodness and is full of goodness, we all need to Recognize,

Appreciate and Understand the potential scope of accomplishments that lay ahead of us

encouraging all of us to take the respective steps in ensuring that this agenda of Energy

Efficiency and Conservation - Doing More with Less; becomes The World's agenda enterprisingly

- There are obviously various additional factors that need to be carefully analyzed, researched

and put into practice after consultation with the respective departments / agencies that are

proficiently well versed with the related processes accordingly

- The above proudly implies that when the World embarks upon an agenda with all People focusing

explicitly upon the objective of ensuring Energy Efficiency and Conservation - Doing More with

Less; this intention by itself would provide tremendous power and accelerate its velocity

significantly

- Then obviously the deeds associated with the implementation of the relevant actions associated

with the above would be provided a completely different meaning since it would be on one hand

attending an effective conservation of Natural Resources thereby complimenting one of the very

most precious initiatives, namely; Natural Conservancy and this would further stimulate to

ensure a triumphant accomplishment of the Energy Efficiency and Conservation - Doing More with

Less campaign very much more effectively and meaningfully for sure

- It is giving to Nature; demonstrating to Nature that we respect and care for its Resources

very thoughtfully and are sincerely taking noble initiatives by utilizing the available

resources of energy efficiently and conserving what we have available; and when having the

objective of adoption and implementation of a conservative approach consistently in the

forefront to compliment the initiatives, this would strategically ensure to strengthen the long

term initiatives taken more firmly and resourcefully

Best Wishes,
Vashi Ram Chandi

Roger Williams

The original version of the CFR CAA on ETOH the EPA took the first 3 pages of the preamble to discuss what we all know now. It is a sham.
Net zero at BEST.

Assuming no unintended consequences, which of course there are.

That changed, laws by congress change as their beauracratic policies change?

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/58-68343.txt

Kit P

“what we all know now”

Could you be less cryptic and more specific Roger?

Who is we, and what is it we now know?

amazingdrx

Sorry Jim, I have to disagree on ethanol. Khosla is scamming to try and get out of his investments in ethanol while cutting his losses.

It's a bad idea to turn biomass into gas guzzler fuel. He realizes that now and is trying to sell his investments in it to anyone else who will buy into this scam.

His main source of relief right now is subsidies from US taxpayers. Forget ethanol, cellulosic or crop based, it's a scam created by agri-fuel lobbying from Khosla and his cohorts.

Doug Nixon

Reading the confused ramblings of the anti-ethanol types is so entertaining, it almost sounds like half of you are oil execs masquerading as environmentalists. That being the case maybe you could explain to the other half ethanol's now substantial role in supplying lead-replacing octane to Americ's gasoline pool

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Doug Nixon

Just as I thought, whenever the subject of "octane" comes up, the anti-ethanolers head for the hills

kim

Can anyone suggest another energy site, since this one has slowed down so much?
thank you.

by the way, do you know that the word "raises" appears twice in a row in the title to this post?

antony

For Engineering Jobs visit: Anto Online Jobs

Kit P


Kim, to the left and right there are links to many sites. You could also post a link to a more resent story with a short analysis. Start the ball rolling.

Busby @ seo test

The consumption rate of carbon-based fuel is so high that there should be alternative for this since the stock and its impact on environments contribute to global warming. I am a supporter of biofuel whether it was ethanol or palm oil as a means of reducing our dependence on carbon-based oil.

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Cyril R.
Let me repeat, American framers increasing corn production is not causing any hunger. The reason is that there is excess capacity to produce corn.

There is no excess capacity when corn ethanol must provide a substantial amount of oil substitution.

Indeed, using all of today's US corn production would barely get a 7% reduction in petroleum usage. That is by energy content; higher engine efficiency of ethanol might increase this slightly. Then again the large fossil fuel input of corn ethanol will make the fossil fuel substitition much lower.

Let's say there's a factor of 2 overcapacity for corn production. This is rather optimistic, and it increases risks for soil fertility and biodiversity; the sheer land requirement alone would make for huge impacts, even if the farming methods is relatively benign. And then that's still only 14 percent of today's oil demand. Problem 86 percent unsolved, and we get a lot of new problems in the deal.

One could see that using all this feed corn for biofuel production will cause meat producers/cattle farmers etc to look elsewhere for their feed. This 'elsewhere' means different food crops, and this will result substantial competition of fuel with food. Since rich people can afford to pay more for food, they will price out the poor who eat non-food agriproducts. In fact this is what is already happening right now.

You can't escape food vs fuel with large scale corn ethanol.

Corn ethanol is a loser and subsidies that go to it are locking us into a loser pathway. Stop the subsidies. Give incentives to advanced biofuels based on scientific merit. This is much to ask from the redneck agrifuel lobby, but it will benefit them on the long run, as they can make a hell of a lot more money per acre (higher yields) and maintain soil fertility for future generations. If the argument is brought like this, we might win the agrifuel lobby over.


Cyril R.

Argh, non-meat agriproducts of course!

Kit P

“barely get a 7% reduction”

Opps, Cyril is out of date. Ethanol has already replaced 8% of gasoline. Not only that American farmers have produced a surplus of corn. Part of the reason is the the food value is not lost when some of the energy is processed out.

If Cyril has bother to read the above article he would know,

“The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 requires that the RFS to have annual increases until it reaches 36 billion gallons of ethanol in 2022, 15 billion gallons must come from corn ethanol and 22 billion gallons from second-generation biofuels. ..”

I suppose that is what intended by “Give incentives to advanced biofuels based on scientific merit.”

Happy now!

N Murphy

Anyone going to the "Managing Outage and New build Risk" conference in Orlando next week (http://www.ds-energy2009.com/)?

Cyril R.
Opps, Cyril is out of date. Ethanol has already replaced 8% of gasoline.

No, I am talking about all oil use, not just gasoline. Polish up your reading skills Kit.

If Cyril has bother to read the above article he would know,

“The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 requires that the RFS to have annual increases until it reaches 36 billion gallons of ethanol in 2022, 15 billion gallons must come from corn ethanol and 22 billion gallons from second-generation biofuels. ..”

I suppose that is what intended by “Give incentives to advanced biofuels based on scientific merit.”

22 billion gallons from second generation = a good thing to try. 15 billion gallons from corn ethanol = not a very good target to aim for. Corn ethanol is an extremely marginal technology. Costs a lot gives us little.

There are better ways to provide support to farmers. Stimulate them to be more innovative, like co-producing food with biofuels, and stimulating advanced high yielding crops with little fertilizer and water use etc.

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J Nooone

well it could just be that we are onthe rightpath here

Cyril R.

J Nooone, we are on the right path, yet we can do better if we cut out the 15 billion gallons from corn ethanol, and give the subsidies to better biofuel production technologies and - feedstocks (like sustainable forestry and agriwaste biofuel production with low water and nutrient input).

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Time for finding new energy sources has come indeed.

Phillip Joe

Its good to increase alternative fuels, however you there is a fine line that the EPA has to walk. There needs to be market demand for the fuel. Just increasing the supply without viable buyers can and has been an issue. Also Certain fuels should not be mandated i.e. “Corn ethanol” which was a horrible decision , drove up food prices. Government usually doesn’t create the best circumstances when it mandates something without looking at all the potential repercussions. However in this case I think it should spur innovation and production, Hopefully.

Kit P

The claim that corn ethanol has driven up food prices has been debunked a long time ago. In fact it is hard to find much wrong with corn ethanol at all. The mandate certainly did spur production and innovation.

The fact that the US was able to reach a state of over production so quickly without negative ramifications (unless you invested poorly) answer many questions about the limitation of biomass.

If you are a Texas oilman or battery maker, ethanol is a threat.

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The comments to this entry are closed.

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