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April 02, 2008

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Comments

Johan Bouwer

I believe that regardless of the cost, the government has a duty to pay for new tranportation technologies, as well as making better (creative-such as the above article) use of current technologies.

Jeremy Hughes

What is the equivalent amount of diesel fuel for that much hydrogen?

Jeremy Hughes

Never mind
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/10/vancouver_2010.php

George Bruce

This is further evidence that we need lots of little solutions to the energy problem rather than waste time looking for one or two big solutions.

Carl Hage

This seems absurd to me-- double absurd if you consider most of the H2 is still being vented to the air. Using H2 for an internal combustion engine seems a poor use. Besides expensive, the tanks on the trucks need refilling quite often, so have limited range/day.

It looks like only about 2% of the H2 is being used...

The energy equivalent of 1000 kg-H2/hr is about 1130 gal-diesel/hr. The 15 modified trucks won't use this much, so I guess they must still be dumping most of the H2. (The 1130 gal/hr at 15K mi/yr at 35mpg is 23K cars).

They use electricity to make H2 and sodium chlorate, then dump the H2. Instead of shipping the H2 to a car wash, why not just install a fuel cell (or gas turbine/ICE generator) on site to recycle electricity?

The H2 dumped has an energy value of about 33MW. Assuming a fuel cell efficiency of 35%, that's about 11.6MW. (The car wash was .15MW)

A fuel cell costs around $4/w (future estimate of $1.5/w), so that's $47M ($17M future) using all the H2. Electric cost would be $.09 for a 5 year payback, or $.05 for 10 (less than half in the future). This project spent more than $1M per vehicle just for the compressor stations. A better use of public incentives would be the on-site fuel cell to use 100% of the H2.

The fuel cell has a pretty low efficiency-- though recovering a third of the waste is worth it. However, consider other possible uses. How about upgrading pyrolysis fuel oil, created from garbage or waste biomass at $.50/gal? It can be converted into diesel fuel by adding H2. This would make the waste H2 worth something close to H2 from natural gas.

[A less green use of the H2 would be to upgrade the tar sands in Alberta, now using natural gas and dumping CO2 in the air. There are probably other uses of the H2 as well.]

Too bad the press doesn't do calculations like that above. The moral isn't that this is a bad project-- the moral is that we can get a lot of free energy by capturing energy waste. Waste energy recovery (and conservation/effiency) should get as much attention as renewable sources.

Angus

This project is supported by the National Research Council of Canada which makes the project in itself a research and development project more than a commercial venture. What seems to be the confussion here is that this is an energy recovery project rather than an energy producing venture and as mentioned above, locating the entire plant near the Tar Sands or other oil producing area where the recovered H2 could be utilized in that process would probally make the H2 recovery system economical.

To further this idea, offshore oil fields could utilize Wave Energy Converters to produce H2 and inject it into crude oil deposits rather than trying to produce electricity directly. There doesn't seem to be much headway into producing energy from waves and selling it directly to the consumer. The possibilities are there for H2 use but not in as direct system such as an Automobile. I think more research along these lines are needed.

Bob Wallace

"... why not just install a fuel cell (or gas turbine/ICE generator) on site to recycle electricity"

As we move to a 'smart grid' and net metering we will see the opportunity for innovative generation systems to be marketed.

There are most likely many, many places where energy is being discarded today because it's too difficult to bring it to market. If one could readily sell surplus electricity then lots of companies would start to look at generation as another profit center.

Hamid Tamehi

I would like to clarify a few points in the article. The two electro-chemical plants vent a total of 1000 kg/hr. At this time the project is only capturing and purifying 25 kg/hr. This is fuelling 9 pickup trucks, 2 shuttle buses, 4 full size HCNG buses and the 150 KW fuel cell installation.

Hydrogen powered internal combustion engines used in hybrid or plug-in hybrid architectures can be a very attractive commercial solution. Dynamic blending of hydrogen with gasoline or diesel in internal combustion engines is another solution successfuly demonstrated on pickup trucks developed by the Saskatchewan Research Council. Use of hydrogen enriched natural gas in ICE engines is yet another practical solution as demonstrated by the 4 buses in the program.

As for the fuel cell installation at the car wash, the overall efficiency is over 75% since the rejected heat from the fuel cells is also used for the car wash. This subproject claims to be of most value if installed in regions with high electricity costs (financial & environemental).

Let's not forget that hydrogen and electricity are the only energy carriers that have zero or near zero emissions when used. They can compliment each other very well in providing our industrial, residential and transportation energy needs. The real challenge seems to lie in generating electricity and hydrogen with minimal emissions. This seems to be more of an economic rather than a technological challenge.

Clee

They are venting 1000kg/hr? They aren't using the rest of the waste hydrogen to run a fuel cell to help power the chemical plants and the equipment that purifies and compresses the hydrogen?

Hamid Tamehi

There are plans in the works to utilize all of the vented hydrogen. Since BC's electricity is very cheap and green (hydro)it is hard to justify converting the hydrogen into electricity. A much better use would be to use it as a transportation fuel to displace fossil fuels.

Alan

Run Car on Water is a new technology to allow you to run car on water by installing a conversion kit into your car. With the conversion kit, you are allow to convert water into hydrogen. So your car can run on fuel and hydrogen! Most of the users are saving 50% of the fuel cost with this new technology!

Jo

It is definitely possible to run your car off of water. That's right, water as fuel!

www.water4fuel.tk

Car polisher

Thanks, that was an interesting read. I wonder if anyone can answer a related question I have? I have linked to a car polisher in my name. I just wondered if anyone has had any experience with these or maybe could recommend me something different. Thanks - Liz

luc

Hydrogen is the next big thing. Can't wait to have my own hydrogen car. I'm trying to build a hydrogen generator like some found at http://hfcv.com

Scepter Marketing Technologies

You can run your car on water! I just recently converted my '94 chevy silverado to run on water. It cost me less than $100 for the parts I needed and it went from getting 14mpg to 33mpg. That's double the mileage for less than it cost me to fill up. There is definitely something to this water for gas technology, It works!

Hydrogen Cars

hydro cars, it helps in reducing the use of oils and also increase their mileage from 50% - 70% , there are sites that offers hydro kits today, you can try it if you want, there will be no loss only benefits.

run your car on water

i think this is such a great thing. Hydrogen is definitely the future.

hendrafa

make DIY hydrogen generator : http://diy-hydrogengenerator.com

Bucket Trucks

It is great that people are thinking about the environment and working to make the world a safer place. Not only the materials that you are using on your home are safe for the environment but dump trucks have come a long way since the earlier models. We are learning and expanding and coming up with a wide range of safer more effective vehicles for the work force. I think it is great that many auto manufacturers are turning to hybrid vehicles to protect the environment and now they are even using hybrid dump trucks.

Salvage Cars

I don't think the world's so called leaders would abandon oil for alternative power regardless of whether it is hydro/electro/solar or whatever.

HHOGasKitWizad

Thanks for sharing this very use full information I will be definatly be back soon. Keep Up the Good Work!

HHOGasKitWizad

When can we expect something new on this matter I really would like to here more of what you have to say about this.

Henry Gibson

Hydrogen and CO2 can be fed to organisms to make ethanol. Since CO2 is already produced by fermentation, the H2 can just be fed to ordinary fermentors. Why is the H2 not made on the spot into methanol is a question. CO2 can be had cheaply enough. ..HG..

Henry Gibson

The H2 produced this way is a cheaper fuel than oil at $150, but the electricity would be more efficiently used in plug in hybrid cars. ..HG..

Aleks

"Hydrogen fuel cells were deemed too expensive for the IWHUP project, and the existing internal-combustion technology was already available through Ford". Directly combustion of hydrogen fuel has many pros and cons. I can't realise, why are hydrogen cell too expensive?

Aleks

"Fuel cells were deemed too expensive for the IWHUP project, and the existing internal-combustion technology was already available through Ford." Directly combustion of hydrogen fuel has many pros and cons. I can't realise why hydrogen cell are too expensive

Aleks

It may be better to use a scam called HHO Generator :-)

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I recently came across your blog and have been reading about car wash I thought I would

leave my first comment. I dont know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice

blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

will

Hydrogen fuel cells really work. I bought mine from hydropush.com Hydrogen Generators They have some of the best 30 & 50 Amp Pulse Width Modulators I've ever seen!

Carrot

Hydrogen may just be the line we need to heavily cut down our immense carbon dioxide emission in the atmosphere. But, the availability of the product may still be at its beta stage!

Used Car Parts

It is a nice blog. Yes you have written good things here about selling used car. I dont know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

AW Hydrogen

I agree with the May 18th comment that the world leaders aren't going to abandon oil. But still the word can be put out there that there are alternatives to fuel and lining someone's pocket. Hydrogen generator fuel is a viable option that makes it affordable.

dewarsgtx

The military adopting HHO gas is amazing. What this will do for the environment lowering the fossile fuels that we use. Using plates as a conductor not wires with HHO gas generators offers so much power for any vehicle. Cleaning the all old carbon deposits from even the oldest unmaintained engines. Using plates as a conductor can also save up to 40% gas. If you want to learn how to make a HHO generator using plates go to http://www.fuelwithh2o.com

Dan Greenberg

Hydrogen Vehicle for sale.
Fill up on compressed Hydrogen!!!
I am selling the ultimate multi fuel vehicle $15,000 OBO
Hydrogen Power 2006 Ford Ranger XL Extra Cab w/ 24,000 miles
This vehicle has all the trimmings to run gasoline, compressed natural gas (CNG), compressed hydrogen (H2) or a blend of H2 and CNG (hythane).
It comes with a laptop and the software to program the ECO-Fuel bypass ECU that is installed. Many pictures available.
Dan 206-854-9142 Seattle

Britis Gas Energy Smart

It might be costly but still, it is a very good idea that one could think about as another alternative energy source to power vehicles and automobiles. Two problems would be solved with only one action. Seem reasonable except for the government, who would have had to finance it. But let's face it...funding a project such so wouldn’t harm anyone and in fact, it would actually show some "social responsibility" for their people. Anyhow, there an article that covers very well what it could be a very possible alternative power source for the future..

Pole Trailers for Sale

If only clean air was a simple task.

sildenafil

I enjoyed these characters I still a boy, he enjoyed seeing how "saved the world of evil '(I forget their names) excellent blog hahaha.!

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Do you want information and advice on aging and health supplements with antiaging benefits like resveratrol, the miracle polyphenol found in red wine? Resveratrol research suggests it has antiaging, anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, anti-oxidant, and cardiovascular benefits.

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I am selling the ultimate multi fuel vehicle $15,000 OBO
Hydrogen Power 2006 Ford Ranger XL Extra Cab w/ 24,000 miles
This vehicle has all the trimmings to run gasoline, compressed

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Air Max shoes

Well good, hopefully I won't see spam in bulk in every single one of my email accounts for the rest of my life.

Account Deleted

Thats really nice. But main thing is that the hydrogen gas should not leave the long lasting side effects on the car. And it should not effect the paint of the car. For all the person who love their car they can visit http://www.final-details.com/ for more info about caring their car.

edward

I have been interested in h2 ice for some time I feel i should point out that the " on board conversion kits" mentioned are always arip off. I would love to hear from the guy who can convert a twentyfirst century engine for only 15,ooo !! if true I,ll take one!! pity he did not leave a link. If anyone has any real info on how to generate hydrogen at home with solar panels I'd be interested in that too. h2ice is an excellant bridge to end-user-owned solar power. so we won't need the old grid, let alone a brand new high tech one.

acomplia online

Sounds looks good for car wash.

clay bar

you know i just think it is crazy that the world does not use this type of enrgy to power more things and all car. there are so many other options our there other than fuel but we choose to spend our governments money in other place instead of helping the people and plant.. thanks for the cool info i have not seen this typre of energy.. have you heard of photo voltanic paint that is the next best solar power energy.. check it out it look cool

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I am so happy you posted on laduree. I have written about macarons a couple of times and when I speak to people, many times they have not heard of macarons. Thanks for spreading the word on my favourite treat!

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I have to add here in this blog that I love playing piano, is some of the things for which I die and I dedicate my life, my piano teacher has nearly 30 years in the management of this instrument, thank you for this contribution and here you leave my comment ...

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The source said he was asked Jobs whether the success of the process, including in Asia, use the "slavery" of labor, but did not get answered.

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