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April 19, 2008

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Canucklehead

Thanks for your answer Bob. That clarifies a great deal. In pulling data together for you, is there a best after date stamp that you look for? I don't want to spend too much time collating "old" data that would be viewed as irrelevant.

You may be interested in reading the following National Post series on Global Warming

National Post: Climate Change

Bob Wallace

C-head -

I read a couple of the pages. Specifically the one on Mars global warming and the one on Earth warming being due to solar cycles.

What is stated on those pages doesn't match the data. Mars isn't experiencing global warming. And, well, you can see from your earlier post that there's a disconnect between the 11 year solar cycle and what we've observed since 1850/1880.

Best I can tell Pinocchio authored that site.

You'll have to pardon me. I don't have the energy to read and critique any more pages for you. I just finished plowing through several pages of crap based on a terribly incorrect article from an Australian newspaper.

Here's a little quote from the article:

"All four agencies that track Earth's temperature (the Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the Christy group at the University of Alabama, and Remote Sensing Systems Inc in California) report that it cooled by about 0.7C in 2007. This is the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record and it puts us back where we were in 1930. If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over."

Problem is, none of the four cited sources say that what the article says that they do.

The Remote Sensing Systems data might have a claim something like that on its initial release, but shortly after publication the main investigator found a mistake in data reporting and corrected their findings.

The other three original sources say nothing of the kind.

I'm pretty much with bob, the little. I tire of people who operate from a basis of rumor and don't bother at least attempting to check original sources.

Do yourself a favor and backcheck some of the stuff that you're using to support your belief system. Perhaps you're getting some BS shoveled your way?


Bob Wallace

Oh, yeah. The "date stamp" thing.

Science is a ongoing process. New data emerges and old data is sometimes better explained in a better or revised theory.

In my field, and in science in general, when one finds an interesting study or paper they then do a forward search to find out how that data/paper has held up over time.

The stuff you posted is interesting, but it's almost a decade old. I'd like to see how the issues are being treated currently.

And you never did tell me what you saw in the graphs that bothered you.

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Kit P

“In my field”

It is obvious from Bob Wallace's post that his field does not require knowledge of the environment, critical thinking, or being honest.

Part of any EIS is to baseline the environment back millions of years. For this reason I have had the pleasure of working with many geologists. I had to explain to two of them that they were telling lies and what the prison time was for making material false statements. Judging from the words that were exchanged in a closed door meeting, theses scientist thought I was an a**hole. The were we assigned and other geologists completed their work. Unfortunately, they had exchanged some email on government computers alluding to the idea that they could make up stuff and everyone was clueless. It made national news and their was a big investigation. Bottom line is that the work in question only soil the waste basket. How I did my job was identified as best practice.

So Bob Wallace the fallacy of your logic is failing to baseline and follow a rigorous process. It seems logical to you that we start looking at global temperatures at the beginning of the industrial age because that is when we started burning coal.

Ken wrote, “you can of course believe the scientist are self-serving liars devoted to doing a bad job in order to cause concern and fear -”

Well Ken, unfortunately many scientists earn a living fearing mongering and judging some of the rants here they do a very good job at it. To be fair, many are honest and is the press and politicians who are doing the fear mongering. I was watching Senate hearings for government funding of a project I had worked on. The former first lady was giving a speech about the 'scientific uncertainty' quoting a GAO report. The speech was very good and I certainly would have been convinced if I did not know it was not true. It took me five minutes to look up the GAO report that was discussing 'schedule uncertainty'. The project will not get done if congress does not fund it. Duhhhh!!!

The link the AL Fin posted was 10% interesting science and 90% journalistic fear mongering. The journalist claims no scientific accreditation.

So if the AGW zealots actually want to discuss science and open up the NAS we can discuss it.

Canucklehead

Et tu Bob. If you are interested in doing a forward search on some current temperature data, here is the blog to read:

NOAA Temperature Measurement Issues

Do you have any thoughts about this?

Bob Wallace

C-head,

I just don't have the energy to play Where's Waldo with you.

Please state your point clearly.

NorCalMatt

Kit says: "Part of any EIS is to baseline the environment back millions of years."

Uh, no. I see Kip's knowledge of environmental law is about as accurate as all his other supposed expertise. It's funny how the owner of an "engineering firm" could get everything so wrong. (And funny how he posts here all day every day even though he's running this so-called engineering firm, and funny how he would expect to win over customers with his complete lack of social grace, even if he did actually have an engineering firm, and, well, you get the point. He's a funny guy.)

Of course he could just mean he and his brother finally got that toy train set running down in the basement. And he only needed a little help from the neighborhood kids to figure out all the switches and stuff. Bless his heart.

Here's an observation for those who ever feel inclined to actually pay attention to Kit's rambling: arguing with him is like being in the Special Olympics. You may win, but you're both still retarded.

And Kip, how about brushing off an undergraduate-level English book now and then. It might help you look slightly less foolish, though probably not.

Bob Wallace

Matt, you might consider treating this site as an an opportunity to practice your signal detection skills.

Try to determine noise sources and tune them out. There's really some good stuff in the signal once you adjust your antenna.

Here's my trick. I look first at the person posting. A couple of people have earned "don't bother reading the text" status.


Canucklehead

I think Kit P and Al Fin have attained "must read" status.

Paul M.

As I read this, I see a lot of hostility out there. For a little levity, perhaps you should watch another movie, that also had a "Project Vulcan". I am referring to the first Austin Powers Movie, in which Dr. Evil threatens to annihilate the world with "molten hot magma"....

I hope that with this posting, my name has not entered the "don't bother reading the text" status.

Please, cut the acrimony already.

Kath aka wraithe

Want to save the planet, stop building concrete buildings, get rid of your steel products, get rid of plastics totally, plant a tree and build a house from it...
get rid of your car and buy a horse...I would love to see another 100ppm CO2 in the atmosphere, it would help my garden grow better vegetables to start with..Warmer planet, more rain.Why, because it will create more evaporation..oh yeh you forgot about that hey!..
Humans need to think and look at everything that is going on with our planet and the surrounds, including the sun, and include everything in any model thats developed..Jumping up and saying, if we dont do something now we will all die the death of a thousand cuts, is not quite right.. Humans have already survived periods of extreme warmth and extreme cold, extreme levels of CO2 and lows..
It will be interesting if this drop in world temperatures continues, but then ipcc will just change the goal posts and say, its manmade..
Come on, look at what they first said and what there saying now...They have no idea whats going on, but everyone is saying, their right..If that was the case, then they would still be sticking to there guns about what was first said...
There just a pack of nutters with not one correct answer, but they will change there stories just to keep you fooled...

Brad Willams

The CO2 is one of the most human produced gas it is in the 25%,Carbon Dioxide is which is very dangerous to the human beings, and it inversly effects the climatic conditions just like rainfall will come in mid of Summer, so these rainfalls are not seasonal, they will effect humans,crops,plants etc.

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thanks,Im learning great stuff.

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Isotopes of carbon are produced by interaction high in the atmosphere with cosmic rays.......

Phil H.

In Copenhagen, approx. 2500 scientist (i.e. experts) provided their opinion about climate change. Of those, approx. 35 scientist felt that the uncertainty in data did not warrant any concern. The rest (i.e. 2465 give or take) felt that there was significant evidence that anthropogenic CO2 (i.e. man-made CO2, for you armchair experts) did warrant concern and action.

I understand where the denialist are coming from. It is simply a scary thought, pure and simple. Easier to ignore it than to try to address it. In addition, addressing it may require some sacrifice and trade-offs. Now, not only is it a scary thought, but it also may take money out of my pocket. Now, I don't just have reason to ignore it, but I best DENY it and side with the 1% or so scientist that agree with me.

As a scientist, this is great work. It may allow us to isolate where emissions are highest and possibly deal with them at the source. There ARE innovative solutions out there. They need to be given priority. A sense of urgency is required.

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Global warming is an issue that is all about funding allocations for science. Sounds more like optimistic opinion than fact, although it is grounded in a long held belief that weather, climate, the air we breathe, the bounty of land and ocean are beyond puny humanity's power to change. Thanks,

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You are great! But I still did good! Hey!

Car Lease Los Angeles

That is interesting that Wisconsin and New Hampshire had such high emissions, I'm not surprised to see it in California and other populated areas.


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This is scary, the US is responsible for 25% of world CO2 emissions?!

Therapist New York

Wow, New York isn't looking so great! Think I need to move more towards Montana, lol.

Tours in Venice

This board gets kind of hostile! I wish that people could work together for the betterment of the world and for bigger causes, life is too short and precious
for petty BS. We are destroying our planet and we need to be educated and work together to fix this, not bicker.

Tours in Venice

I am just so impressed as to how people figure out how to collect this kind of data.

beverage manufacturing

How cool Purdue is doing this, I knew I liked that school. Good sports teams too.

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