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April 26, 2008

Comments

Paul F. Dietz

I think it would be possible to do a lot better than the single digit concentration ratios that most designs get for concentrating diffused light. What do you think?

You will not be able to achieve more than single digit concentration unless your final optical element, one directly abutting the absorber, has rather high refractive index (since the concentration goes as n^2, n the index of that element, in a properly designed system).

Kit P

Some may find this intersting.

Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System # 07-AFC-05
http://www.energy.ca.gov/sitingcases/ivanpah/index.html

The NEPA EIS can be found here:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/sitingcases/ivanpah/documents/applicant/AFC/

Cyril R.

You will not be able to achieve more than single digit concentration unless your final optical element, one directly abutting the absorber, has rather high refractive index (since the concentration goes as n^2, n the index of that element, in a properly designed system).

Maybe silicon? Silicon has a refractive index of around 4 in the solar wavelenghts, which should allow double digit concentration ratios.

Perhaps double digit concentration can also be achieved with a spherical concentrator.

Paul F. Dietz

Perhaps double digit concentration can also be achieved with a spherical concentrator.

The thermodynamic limits wouldn't be evaded by something geometric like that. The limit comes from the thought experiment where you immerse the collector in a bath of blackbody radiation at some temperature T. The concentrator cannot cause the intensity of the radiation at the absorber surface to exceeed n^2 times the intensity of the blackbody radiation, regardless of the geometry of the optics (n the refractive index of the material abutting the absorbing surface). Were this not the case, you could cause heat to flow from a colder object (the surrounding surface emitting the blackbody radiation) to a hotter object (the absorbing surface).

(The n^2 comes from the fact that thermal emission from a black surface also increases as n^2.)

You can achieve higher 'concentrations' with diffuse sunlight by exploiting the fact that its spectrum is not that of a blackbody at the same power density. For example, using fluorescent concentrators or wavelength selective absorbers/windows.

steve

Kit I basically agree with most of your post. There was and still is a lot more hype to renewables than there is fact. I am always leery of any new company’s claims until they prove themselves. Most of the previous legislation for renewables was either written by politicians, who did not have a clue how the industry operates or by the people who would benefit most from the contracts. In the past the amounts were so small, compared to the total amount, that the regulated utilities did not care how much they cost simply because they were getting good PR at a cheap price. I do feel this is starting to change somewhat. With our reluctance to build nuclear and coal, I feel wind and to a greater extent solar will find their place in the market. They are not going to replace or seriously challenge conventional energy sources unless they can drive down prices dramatically and find efficient long term storage. Of course if natural gas prices continue to rise or carbon taxes are enacted then it will hurry things along.

Ok Kit I am not going to keep beating you up on your CF claims for California. You are plenty smart enough to know that most areas in California will have a better CF than say New Jersey. Yes there are people with more money than brains hanging solar panels on houses in places like San Francisco and Eureka but most places in California and all where commercial production of solar is slated, will have higher solar radiation and better weather.

It was an interesting link you posted. I am on the California Energy Commission website quite often and was aware of the project. Brightsource is the old LUZ which built the original SEGS project. They used to have some brilliant engineers working for them then, only to be matched by completely inept business skills. Hopefully they hire a competent business manger this time and keep control over the project.

I feel that towers will have an advantage over the trough design in that they are dual axis and can follow the sun as it heads south for the winter. Also the sun does not run a perfect east to west motion and does more of a parabola in the sky. Some of the original trough designs called for way to change the north-south angle but were never implemented. For now their north-south angle is fixed and their east to west axis follows the sun.

One of the problems I see with the tower design is that it takes more land than a present trough system. They quote about 800 acres for 100 MW’s while the present systems can do it in about 500 acres. Really where they are planning on building these plants is as close to a wasteland as you will ever see. It is a dry lakebed just before you enter Nevada on Interstate 15. In the end I guess it is total cost that will matter most.

I like that they do not appear to be using oil as heat transfer fluid. I also like they plan to use dry cooling but think they will end up with a hybrid tower in the end to keep efficiencies up. I wouldn’t put too much faith in the statement they will use natural gas for startups and clouds. I don’t know their contract but most of the utilities have wised up and only want to buy solar energy. The California Energy Commission website also states the Beacon Solar project will do the same and I know for a fact it will not. The Nevada One Solar project has natural gas backup too but could only run an extremely limited load with it. It is used to keep the HTF oil from freezing and is rarely ever used.

Kit P

“Ok Kit I am not going to keep beating you up on your CF claims for California.”

I think the CF all renewable energy projects are going to improve because the PTC pays for performance and tools like predictive maintenance. With 28 states having RPS, IOU have to generate renewable energy but they can pick good locations.

All NEPA EIS documents are public domain and allow public participation. It is just a case of finding the state site. All nuke plants are at www.nrc.gov. Steve, do you now if 33MWe solar plants will require a EIS if they are not on public lang?

SJC

Kramer Junction in the Mojave has been producing 300 MW for decades. They use parabolic troughs to heat fluid and run turbines. They are about to double the capacity and if you are ever out in the area you should drop by and take a look.

expert

Hi,
we have been installed a prototype solar chimney in Türkey. you can find details www.unienerji.com
http://yekarum.sdu.edu.tr

Preston

I think its great that people are looking for alternative ways to power there homes and businesses. Power Plants will always have a place but going green is the new wave.

Power Plant Operator Logs

No Fax Payday Loans - David

The articles in this energy blog are very interesting. I love reading here and being more informed about new things. Alternate sources of energy are just the things we need. We are better off concocting new ideas that will seriously help us in during times of financial crisis. All people are benefited by blogs like this. I would like to share some the news, tips and articles here. http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/ This will help us become more aware of what is happening around us. The more knowledgeable we are, the etter, wiser decisions we will make.

Will Johnston

Can someone explain the recently passed solar tax credits and what homeowners should bee aware of? Is there a minimum investment for the credit? Is there a limit to the types of solar power that can be installed or used?

Any info would be great.

Will Johnston
www.growandmake.com

solar

Yes! Keeping in mind the drastic environmental changes and rising fuel prices going Solar is one option open to all at minimal investments. The Solar Water heating systems are so easy to install and most of them come in a Do-it Yourself kit, With the technological advancement the once heavy, bulky hard to move panels are now available widely in light weight easy to carry by one personal only packages. The advancement in technology is not only limited to light weight, but for those concern about the aesthetics of the panels, the good news is that the panels are now available with a variety of trim colors to choose from and can be easily matched to your roof. Saving about $25.oo on ones electricity bill every month on a residence of 4. We all use hot water, as one of our basic needs and what can be a better way, than helping our environment, saving our resources and ourself's some money other than by investing in a Solar Water Heating System.
There are a couple useful websites I'm aware off, that I would like to share with you
1. www.dsireusa.org - is a comprehensive source of information on state, local
, utility ans federal incentives that promote renewable engery ans energy efficieny.
2. www.powerpartnerssolar.com - one of the many manufacturers of certified Solar Water Heating Systems available. One place I saw the light weight panels and trim color options I was mentioning earlier.
Lastly, the local utilites in some areas also provide additional rebates and incentives for adding a Solar Water Heating Sytem to your exisitng water tank.
Keep the look out on. Feel Good and save- money for you, environment for us.

solar

Yes! Keeping in mind the drastic environmental changes and rising fuel prices going Solar is one option open to all at minimal investments. The Solar Water heating systems are so easy to install and most of them come in a Do-it Yourself kit, With the technological advancement the once heavy, bulky hard to move panels are now available widely in light weight easy to carry by one personal only packages. The advancement in technology is not only limited to light weight, but for those concern about the aesthetics of the panels, the good news is that the panels are now available with a variety of trim colors to choose from and can be easily matched to your roof. Saving about $25.oo on ones electricity bill every month on a residence of 4. We all use hot water, as one of our basic needs and what can be a better way, than helping our environment, saving our resources and ourself's some money other than by investing in a Solar Water Heating System.
There are a couple useful websites I'm aware off, that I would like to share with you
1. www.dsireusa.org - is a comprehensive source of information on state, local
, utility ans federal incentives that promote renewable engery ans energy efficieny.
2. www.powerpartnerssolar.com - one of the many manufacturers of certified Solar Water Heating Systems available. One place I saw the light weight panels and trim color options I was mentioning earlier.
Lastly, the local utilites in some areas also provide additional rebates and incentives for adding a Solar Water Heating Sytem to your exisitng water tank.
Keep the look out on. Feel Good and save- money for you, environment for us.

Kit P

So solar, how is your system working, how much did it cost, how much are you actually saving?

expert

Solar energy in TÜRKEY

Türkey has remarkable solar energy potential. But we can't use our this potential. in last five years, we have been applied some solar applications. you can find some special applications in

http://www.unienerji.com

Türkey has bigger potential than germany but germany has used solar energy more than us. I think, it's main reason is less promoting the development of solar energy in türkey than germany.


a prototype Solar chimney in TÜRKEY. it's capacity 1,5 KW. diemensions; height: 15m, collector diameter:16m, chimney diameter:1,2m

for more info...
http://www.unienerji.com
http://www.unienerji.com
http://www.unienerji.com

solar-cost-solar-panels-solar-house

Benjamin, you've got a good point about the 'greenies' acting like their moral vision is enough, but on the flip side, you've got a lot of corporations now focusing on renewables acting like they're moral when, in fact, they're actually being motivated purely by financial greed or societal pressure. There's got to be a happy medium in there somewhere...for both sides.

Easy Grow Greenhouses

Great post and blog! I really enjoyed this post, thanks for that. I look forward to reading your upcoming posts, thanks!

Greenhouse Guy

Great post! It was very well researched and I enjoyed it very much. I bookmarked your site and will be back very soon, I look forward to reading some interesting posts! Thanks

portable solar battery charger

Interestin solution. I also found a good portable device. Solio charger is a compact portable device, which will power most cellular, smart, pda and mp3 devices on the fly. Some models will even store energy for use at night.

Solar Power Business

When it will come in market?

http://www.solarenergy-solarpower.com
Solar Energy - Solar Power site is providing all the information and products you need to start your own solar power project.

Commercial Greenhouses

Great post! It was very well researched and I enjoyed it very much. I bookmarked your site and will be back very soon, I look forward to reading some interesting posts! Thanks, Whitney

solar-energy

The economic tipping point, for solar power, occurs when the capital cost of the solar field is less than the capital costs and fuel costs of the traditional system.

I think this is the key.

so this seems good news.

tony

excellent stuff

Alternative Energy

Solar power and wind power are the future in energy. Hopefully within the next few decades renewable energy is more dominant than fossil fuels.

costa

I'm sure that when it get developed entirly, our environment would be saved.

eco futurist

Even though, the real cost of solar panels is anticipated to show a tendency towards decline in the future, the new technologies scientists currently work on (from biotechnology to these smart prefabs) are not going to be feasible and efficient in reducing the cost of solar power for residential homes. At least, it hasn’t loomed large on the horizon yet.

Unless it become available and feasible for everyone, it is hard to break the dependence upon non-renewables, thus rentier states.

solar panels

Yeap, and i am also interested in the details. If anyone could fine anything about that new technology, share please. Ant thanx for the post.

penis enlargement

eSolar Receives Funding for 33MW Modular Solar Power Plants
Very nice

Homemade Solar Energy

This a great idea. In fact this is how I would do it if someone gave me a bucket of money and a natural gas pipeline near by.

Haiti Solar Energy

great article. Would love to add it to my blogs.

Richard

It's nice to know that a lot of people have been pushing efforts to make planet earth a better place. With biofuels, and all other alternative resources for energy, we might be able to curb the growing problem that is global warming and at the same time preserve the ecosystems of the world. The Earth's natural forces such as wind, hydro and solar power are limitless and effective ways to gain energy. So unless the winds stop blowing, the seas stop roaring or the sun dies out, there'll always be a place to go for energy. Kudos mother earth!

Janet | Solar Power for Homes

Thank you. I will share this info with friends who are interested in Solar Power.

Richard

If more and more of these projects are taken care of, it won't be long until we change the world dramatically.

Richard

I still think that lessening foreign energy dependency should be better. After all, there's nothing better than being self-sufficient.

Miss Solar power

Solar power should be use as much as possible. easy to get and probably the greenest energy in the world. it is a really ecologic and satisfying way to use and consume energy.

Process Management Training

The Solar approach is interesting as it is very different from traditional power towers........

Nicole

It seems that everywhere you turn you are seeing more and more Solar products beginning to emerge. One of the latest trends that is hitting the Global Market is Solar For Golf Carts. Many Golf Courses are taking the Eco-Friendly approach to their Golf Courses by using recycled water, biodegradable materials, Chemical Free pesticides and fertilizers to name a few. But the Newest and most fascinating is putting Solar Tops on the Golf Carts!
May 2009, Sebonack Golf Club in Southhampton, NY converted 39 of their 40 Golf carts into Solar. Earlier in the year, the Jockey Club Kau Sai Chau Public Golf Course in Hong Kong became the first club in the world to outfit it's entire fleet of golf carts with Solar Tops. Both claim an annual savings of over $50,000.00 US by going Solar. Hawaii Prince Golf Club has also converted 10 of their golf carts.

The impact this is having is not only the reduction in their Carbon footprint, but the reduction in downtime for their golfers and the savings on electric costs because they do not have to plug in as often. And one of the greater advantages to going Solar is the extended battery life. The costs savings become tremendous as well as continuous.

SolarForGolfCarts.com has opened the doors for the international market as well with their distributorship in Turkey and Panama.

This is definitely a trend worth watching. And encouraging for those of us who look to business' that become more Eco-Friendly.

Made in China

Made in China

clark

Solar Power Plants are best way to produce electricity.this is a great idea.these projects can be set up on that area which is spoiled like Old industrial area. it is environment friendly,The idea of standardization and buildability, whether for nuke plants, or solar, or wind, is brilliant.It is a best to invest their money on this project.

Kenneth Baker

My energy bill is way too high.I was talking with my boss who agreed he pays to much in energy costs. He said solar can help reduce the monthly energy bill.He was saying that this one time investment will save me a lot and take care of my future power needs.Moreover, my energy company won’t bug me with increasing rates all of the time.So I did some research on this solar panel thing.I hit upon a website FreeCleanSolar.com which has a lot of info and price comparisons, financing and leasing, tax credits and rebates.I feel more knowledgeable now.Do you guys think that I should go for this solar?Let me know

Kenneth Baker

My energy bill is way too high.I was talking with my boss who agreed he pays to much in energy costs. He said solar can help reduce the monthly energy bill.He was saying that this one time investment will save me a lot and take care of my future power needs.Moreover, my energy company won’t bug me with increasing rates all of the time.So I did some research on this solar panel thing.I hit upon a website FreeCleanSolar.com which has a lot of info and price comparisons, financing and leasing, tax credits and rebates.I feel more knowledgeable now.Do you guys think that I should go for this solar?Let me know

laptop battery

I wonder what kind panasonic cgr-d320 battery of footprint this 33 MW pre-fab form-factor unit requires. panasonic hdc-hs100 battery Real estate tends to be a premium panasonic hdc-hs200 battery at the same place where energy demand is.

Red Wine Benefits

Red wine and certain polyphenolic substances in red wine such as resveratrol may help prevent heart and arterial disease. According to the "French Paradox," moderate red wine consumption benefits the heart, increases levels of "good" cholesterol, protects against artery damage and fights free radicals.

dextercath96

This article is useful information about the development of solar power. I have Solar Power Generator
. All this alternative energies are efficient in our everyday lives. This price stability will continue to become stable if people will have alternative energies.

dextercath96

I think that was good and cheaper prices of fuels. I have read this article http://www.sunpowerport.com. I think it is good for your costing in future.

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Stop smoking lozenges

Solar power should be use as much as possible. easy to get and probably the greenest energy in the world. it is a really ecologic and satisfying way to use and consume energy.

Natalie Kaye - Stop Smoking Girl
Stop smoking hypnotist / Stop smoking plan

NP7-12

Great article. Has there been any progress since it was written?

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