The Wall Street Journal reports that GM will announce an upgrade of its "mild" powertrain, the "Belt Alternator Starter," (BAS) drivetrain that is used on hybrids such as the Saturn Aura and Chevrolet Malibu at the Geneva Motor Show.
The new system, "BAS-plus," will use lithium-ion batteries supplied by Japan's Hitachi Ltd. The upgrade to lithium-ion batteries will allow the new hybrid system to produce "limited electric drive" during the "extremely fuel-consumptive phase of initial acceleration."
The system will increase mileage "better than the 12% to 15% benefit" of GM's current BAS system.
Mr. Lutz, GM Vice Chairman, stressed that the system is less expensive than other electric-only driving hybrid systems and therefore more cost-effective for consumers.
I agree with Lutz hat it is less expensive than other hybrid systems, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is automatically less expensive for the consumer. Sure, it's a hybrid, and I am genuinely stoked to see GM making this change, but the end goal here needs to be ultra-high-mileage vehicles and near-zero emissions, right? So why doesn't GM bring back the EV1? They had a great vehicle in the EV1, but they squashed it. Luckily there re other, smaller makes out there who can fulfill our electric car needs and desires. Zap is such a company. Http://www.zapworld.com
Posted by: Jerry Z | March 05, 2008 at 06:14 PM
GM (under Lutz) has the necessary leadership to make things happen in the Hybrid/Electric game. I've seen his results at Chrysler in the late 90's;.... before Eaton pimped us to the Germans! Yes Lee! You did screw-up by picking Eaton over Lutz! At least your man enough to admit it!
Sorry about the rant....I still work there, not the same place it was back then....
The Prius has a terrible ROI for the money spent. Energy storage density is the biggest single roadblock to more widespread acceptance of Hybrid technology (read price).
In Gm's case, 12% of let's say... 30mph (non-hybrid) is ~3.5mpg extra economy. The extra juice that you pay for the " Lithium juice" will determine if it's a good investment...when graphed against rising fuel costs. $2000 extra dollars for this BAS+ system driven 30Kmiles/yr saves the owner $420 with $3.50/gas. Just under 5yrs or 20% ROI (assuming no extra maint. costs) wouldn't be too bad of a "tax-free" ROI. Obviously, the more you drive...the more you save. I may be way off on $2000 extra...? But you get my point.
Posted by: Don B. | March 05, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Sorry, I don't get your point. You say the Prius has a terrible ROI for the money spent, but then you say in GM's case it would be a 20% ROI which you say wouldn't be too bad. But what if you use the same numbers, for the Prius; 30K miles per year, $3.50/gas, compared with a 30mpg non-hybrid?
A Prius gets 46 mpg. So 30K miles uses 652 gallons per year
compared with 30mpg using 1000 gallons per year.
So the Prius saves 348 gallons per year, which is $1218/year at $3.50/gal.
People claim the hybrid stuff costs $3K, some maybe say $5K.
Assuming it's $5K, $1218/$5000 = 24% ROI, better than that GM case.
So, just what was your point? Is 20% ROI terrible or not too bad?
Posted by: Clee | March 06, 2008 at 05:03 AM
A little more checking of MSRP
http://autos.yahoo.com/
2008 Chevy Malibu $19,345-$26,795
2008 Chevy Malibu Hybrid $22,140
2008 Saturn Aura $19,745 - $25,375
2008 Saturn Aura Hybrid $22,140
2008 Toyota Prius Hybrid $21,100-$23,370
The Aura and Malibu Hybrids already cost as much as a Prius, and if you add $2000K and 12% fuel efficiency improvement, they will cost more than the Prius and still have worse fuel efficiency than the Prius.
What's your point?
Posted by: Clee | March 06, 2008 at 05:29 AM
Really??? I do not think so. If you drive 30K miles a year, that implies lots of highway miles. The Pius gets about the same mileage as my Corolla on the highway but I paid $6000 less.
If you drive 30K miles a year, the problem is your lifestyle not how efficient your car is. My POS POV gets 30 mpg. I paid $1200 ten years ago and put about 5K miles a year mostly driving to work. It can carry 4x8 sheets of plywood and all the fire wood I can salvage from the dump. So when the Pius gets 150 mpg, the 30K miles a year can feel good about hauling batteries up and down the road.
That is the basic problem with HEV and PHEV. If you do not use a lot a gas, then you can not save much. If you drive a lot, hauling batteries on the highway is stupid.
Posted by: Kit P | March 06, 2008 at 05:38 PM
Well, if Don B. wants to compare the cost of a Prius to a Corolla, then he should also compare the cost of the Malibu and Aura hybrids with a Corolla, and I still don't see his point.
If a Corolla is plenty of car for you and you only drive 5K miles per year (and perhaps if you drive mostly highway miles) and if you buy used cars or keep cars for 20 years like I do, Then yeah, a Corolla is going to be cheaper. If it weren't for my spouse wanting a Prius partly for the geek factor, I might go for a Honda Fit to replace the old 1988 Chevy Nova when it finally dies.
My Prius- owning friends all average 45mpg. Some get as high as 55mpg. Personally, I'm sure I couldn't get 45mpg highway in a Corolla, especially if my highway trips were so short as to only drive 5K miles per year.
Posted by: Clee | March 06, 2008 at 08:57 PM
Clee, my point is that the Pious is purchased for the wrong reasons, therefore your ROI calculation was bogus. You can get 40 mpg with a Corolla driving 65 mph (3 passengers, full trunk, no wind) which is about what I would expect for the Pious from a Road Track Report on green cars.
The Corolla is my wife's car for running errands. The Honda Fit is what I picked out for her with the Corolla as a second choice but she liked to Corolla. My commute car is an 89' Ford Ranger that gets 30 mpg in the city. Careful choices about lifestyle.
For those that live a consumptive life style, a Pious is not the answer. If you drive 30k miles a year, you live a consumptive life style.
Posted by: Kit P | March 06, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Apples and orages
corolla base price 15,250
base price Malibu 19,995 25% bigger motor 700 pounds heavier
Posted by: kevinb | March 06, 2008 at 10:52 PM
My ROI calculations are based on Don B's numbers. (I don't drive 30K miles per year. I've got only 160K miles on the 1988 car, so that's 8K miles/year.) If Don B. wants to base GM ROI calculations on bogus numbers, he should do the same for the Prius to compare apples to apples. If I were a taxi driver, the Prius ROI numbers would probably work out great. One guy has gotten over 300,000 miles on his Prius and still going great on the original batteries.
I don't really have any problem with your point, Kit. It's Don B's point that I'm not getting.
Posted by: Clee | March 06, 2008 at 11:17 PM
Oops.. nope, the 2002 Prius was hit and was totalled a month or so ago at 349,531 miles on the original batteries.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8575
Toyota claims "the life of the Prius battery pack is determined more by mileage than by time"
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm
So maybe I don't have to worry about the battery life so much even though I keep my cars for 20 years.
Posted by: Clee | March 07, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Well the batteries keep getting better, and this system sounds like a giant step forward for GM
Posted by: Hybrid Authority | March 19, 2008 at 03:03 PM
Good work by GM, anything that will increase fuel efficiency and decrease emissions is welcome. However, the best thing would be to drive an EV that has been charged with a renewable energy source such as wind, solar or hydro power.
Posted by: NiraliSherni | March 24, 2008 at 06:53 AM
i think this car is so awesome. keep up the good work.
forex trading forum
Posted by: forex forum | March 15, 2009 at 10:59 PM
i hope the batteries will get better in the future.
Posted by: run your car on water | April 03, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Intellichoice did a Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) comparison of 2009 hybrid cars vs their non-hybrid equivalents over a 5-year period, or 70,000 miles. They included fuel, maintenance and repair, retained value, insurance, taxes and licensing.
http://images.intellichoice.com/intellichoice_2009_hybrid_clean_diesel_survey.pdf
They found the TCO for the Malibu hybrid to be more than the TCO for the Malibu LT non-hybrid. But the Ford Escape FWD, Honda Civic, Mazda Tribute 2WD, Nissan Altima, Saturn Vue, and even the Chevy Siliverado ad Chevy Tahoe hybrid versions all had a lower TCO than their non-hybrid equivalents. (There is no Prius non-hybrid, so it's hard to do a direct comparison.)
GM is suspending the Chevy Malibu hybrid model for 2010.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/11/gm-to-discontinue-mild-hybrid-malibu-vue-aura-for-2010-model-y/
I guess we'll have to wait another year or two for the new BAS-plus to hit the market, and at what price, before we can evaluate Lutz's claim that it will be more cost effective for consumers. Hope for success.
Posted by: Clee | July 09, 2009 at 06:46 PM