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January 29, 2008

Comments

Will

1. There is an Australian machine quite similar to this, which is meant to generate electricity whilst also desalinating sea water.

https://freeenergy.ca/news/123/ARTICLE/1244/2007-03-12.html

2. Interesting that they are clear that a 500kw array could produce LIGHTING for 500 homes. Often claims simply state that they will POWER 500 homes but lighting is only one part of the mix, with washing machines, dishwashers and so on taking a bit piece of the pie.

3. Surely if this takes water to a storage tank, it could be used for peak power, which I took it has a higher wholesale price. Quick start-up and shut-down costs are one of the important benefits of this kind of hydroelectric power.

JDT

The pilot is $6M/MW (doesn't say what the duty cycle is - suspicious).

Then the 200 pump project is about $1.5M/MW at about 7% interest rate (3.5c/kWh).

How they are going to drop the price by a factor of 4, from 6 to 1.5 - well, its kept obscure.

joe

Why not compress air, which can be stored under pressure and used in a combined gas turbine, which increases its efficiency tremendously. Multiple stages could also be used so one pump would increase the pressure of another pump's output without increasing the flow volume, eliminating the necessity for larger diameter pipes.

H Fuller

Why is it that some commenters always have to be criticize innovation? Of course a production unit will be considerably less costly than a prototype! Obviously, the commenter never built a prototype of anything, or he would realize that there are R&D costs associated with innovation. Let us not try to drag down those who have actually invested their time and fortune trying to make life a bit better for the rest of us.

Howard Fuller

Why the negativity? Here is an innovation that obviously works, so who cares if they say it can provide power or lighting? Anyone who has ever built a prototype knows that the R&D cost is several orders of magnitude above the production cost. "Those who can, do. Those who cannot do, teach. Those who can neither do nor teach, criticize."

mds

What about bio-fouling? If I'm a mussle or barnacle I'm loving the salt water flow provided.

Al Fin

These units will obviously be subject to shark attack. Do you honestly believe that sharks are in favour of human encroachment into their territory? Try to think of this from the shark's point of view.

Gregor

17,200 lbs of steal ought to be real tasty. There's a lot of ocean out there, I don't think they really care.

CK

I hope they develop a plan to compensate for estimated rise in sea level. What I didn't see is if the device is at a fixed height when built or is adjustable to compensate, or adjust to be more efficient, in the instance that sea levels rise or flow below normal.

Reality Czech

The losses involved in pumping seawater to shore are bound to be much greater than the losses in electric cables.

Mitch

Hi,

"having no electrical cables connecting it to the shore"

ADVANTAGES:
Electricity can be generated on demand (huge advantage)

POSSIBLE ADVANTAGES:
Pump on buoy might be cheaper or lighter than generator on buoy.

Pump might be more durable in a corrosive environment.

DISADVANTAGES:
More difficult to pump water to shore and up (requires pressure) than to transmit electricity.

Requires land for an elevated pond or raised tank (raised tanks might be expensive).


Requires a site

Alex J

I applaud any attempt at innovation, considering the water and energy challenges our world faces. But details are important, particularly when R&D involves public subsidy (don't know if that's the case here). It's good to have some preliminary analysis of how commercially feasible a new system is likely to be, and how much demand it can realistically satisfy. This technology looks like it could be a good supplementary source at least.

Kit P

Why the negativity? The seadog is a pathetic animal. A contraption weighing 17,200 pounds that can only pump 12 – 18 gpm @ 125 feet developed head is pathetic not innovative.

Group huge for Howard who failed to notice he was being critical.

Danzig

The Australian company mentioned by Will was, at the time of the posted link, named Energetech. It has since changed its name to Oceanlinx. The Oceanlinx device is apparently finding support among a variety of investors and governments. The technology seems more likely to achieve critical mass than our new canine friend, SEADOG.

Tim

The Australian company that are following the high pressure seawater route are called CETO (https://www.ceto.com.au).

Their setup uses subsurface buoys to pump seawater so they're a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the SEADOG. Not sure about efficiency though which is really the critical factor.

Using wave pumped seawater for desalination is definately the way to go. I wonder if it would be more efficient to do the desalination onboard and just pump the fresh water ashore?

JDT

Howard Fuller, not all innovations are equal. Humans do not innovate for the sake of innovation. This is the leftist-socialist way of thinking. That all innovations and technologies are created equal and all have to be funded, because creativity or innovation is the end goal, and not the betterment of human life.

So as long as our values are so deranged, you will find idiotic ideas getting funded by the government. Fortunately the venture capitalists are not that stupid and will make sure that the stuff being invented is useful in the first place.

This sea dog thing is beyond innovation. They have built a pilot plant. They want now to go into production, and they are not telling us the technical details like duty cycle or energy output.

If you are so gung ho about this contraption, then put your money where your mouth is. Then all of a sudden you will become as critical as I am.

Those who can do, will do. Those who cannot do, will teach. Those who can't do either will criticize. And those who don't know any better, will get duped out of their hard earned dollar by a scam. And those who don't have a dollar to put where their mouth is, get to attack the critic.

Alex

Top marks for durability in the toughest possible environment, but pumping water ashore requires costly storage construction.

Angus

Maybe this could be used as a hydrogen generating system to replace diesal fueled engines in ships with a hydrogen based system. As the vessel sails along, it would pick up a cannister to refuel at strategic offshore locations. Pressure at great depths could be used to to store the Hydrogen in cannisters until needed by a vessel. With 30 000 ships on the ocean daily, it wouldn't be hard to see the reduction in carbon emmisions and provide a steady priced fuel alternative instead of the turbulant oil based markups.

Engineer-Poet

Let's see:

18 gpm = 0.0011 m³/sec

125 feet head = 373.6 kPa

Power = 410 watts

That's going to have to come up just a bit.

JDT

Good work EP. I calculate it to 345 W. with 15% loss.

This 17 ton contraption will run my TV set.

On a calm day, I get to read a book instead.

Yippeeeeee

physics department

If people are really looking for alternative energy sources, then how come nobody's paid any attention to that humongous unaccounted-for energy release at ""Ground Zero"" at the WTC in NYC on 9/11?

Engineer-Poet

"911 University"?  A page without any authors listed?  Here's some more tinfoil for your hat, now go crawl back under your rock.

Gerard

These things are designed to be used in fields of dozens to hundreds. They already have a square mile field permitted for the first plant, which will generate electricity, desalinate, and further filter water to be bottled. The bottling may be a publicity thing, but, the point is to demonstrate the uses and promote the device. No storage is required to generate power, only a pressure regulator. A reservoir of some sort is desirable to fill in during periods of calm seas, but not necessary. The device is designed to last 30 years without maintenance, although, I can see the bio-fouling mentioned by Alex as something that likely will have to be dealt with. One great thing is that once the water is brought, under pressure, to the plant, it can be used to generate power, desalinate, flush the membranes, purify, and even provide mechanical power (anyone remember water wheels? The modern version may be a low speed turbine, but the same principle applies.), all simultaneously, in sequence, or singly, depending on the priority at the moment. It can add electric to the grid during the hot day and be used to produce hydrogen all night. Since the plant generates all it's own water, electric, and mechanical energy, it can be sited anywhere you can do the construction. Nothing is consumed, so no regular supply lines needed. The desalinization becomes cheap enough to truck farm in areas subject to high fresh food pricing, like the Middle East, or island nations. Keep in mind, too, that the pump tested can be built any size proportially, without redesign, for use in areas of much higher seas, for higher outputs. This first one is a baby! Read the reports written by Texas A & M University scientists for the capabilities. The design also is naturally stable in the waves. So much so, it can be hung from an oil platform and replace all the uses normally provided by expensively shipping diesel to the rig. Google it, or use the link at "https://www.inri.us/" to read articles about the device and company. Then contact them and buy stock!

kim

Fortunately the venture capitalists are not that stupid and will make sure that the stuff being invented is useful in the first place.

In my experience, venture capitalists ARE stupid. They pass up great things, and fund stupid things all the time. Occasionally they get it right.

kim

Fortunately the venture capitalists are not that stupid and will make sure that the stuff being invented is useful in the first place.

In my experience, venture capitalists ARE stupid. They pass up great things, and fund stupid things all the time. Occasionally they get it right.

kim

Fortunately the venture capitalists are not that stupid and will make sure that the stuff being invented is useful in the first place.

In my experience, venture capitalists ARE stupid. They pass up great things, and fund stupid things all the time. Occasionally they get it right.

Chad

"Read the reports written by Texas A & M University scientists for the capabilities."

Where can I find this report? I have looked all over to no avail.

stew

Folks that critisize inventions like the Seadog obviously have not done their homework or do not have the knowledge to understand the potential of such an invention. This is for sure the closest thing to help the East Coast of the U.S. and many countries with their water and electricity problems. Something has to be done very soon or many areas of the world will be in grave danger from lack of fresh water and the cost of electricity to get it to the people.It has passed some of the toughest testing in the world by going through Texas A&M scientists,and it passed with flying colors. I will support the Seadog for sure and will be looking to invest very soon as they are heading in the right direction and are way ahead of their competitors. Go Seadog Inventors!!!!

Z

A damm across a inlet with water wheels will do the same thing with Tidel power , Use the incoming tide to pump some of the water to a Higher holding tank and then release it as the tide goes out , use can generate eletricity twice on some of the water with 2 hydroeletrical water wheels generators , one on the elevated Tank and the other on the inlet damm ,the Wave pump should be designed to gerenrate eletricity at the pump or desailinate or catch fish ,

ador

This is obviously another one of Ken Welch's scams to pave his pocket with developmental dollars from another in a long series of technological failures he has perpetrated upon the unwitting public. This man has stated that he has created above unity systems before and not one of them ever under qualified supervision came close to his projections, In fact one of his scams, the air and water motor when tested at the Southwest Research Institute broke, and I mean broke at only 10 - 15% of his projections. Be ware of geeks bearing gifts!

physics student

Hey, engineer-poet, if you're finished shooting the messenger, perhaps you can explain the flaw in the WTC energy surplus hypothesis published at https://911u.org/Physics/WTCenergySurplus.html

Shamil Ayntrazi

The basics are there. However, what about construction costs, resistance to storms and scale to 2o mega watts and above?
Refer to website www.renewableenergypumps.com

Mediafire full

This man has stated that he has created above unity systems before and not one of them ever under qualified supervision came close to his projections, In fact one of his scams, the air and water motor when tested at the Southwest Research Institute broke, and I mean broke at only 10 - 15% of his projections.

Haim Lieberman

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Laura, Adult Tricycle

What happens to the salt removed from the water? Is it dumped back into the ocean/sea, and if so, won't this eventually raise the salt levels to the point of being dangerous or deadly to marine life? Won't it affect buoyancy levels?

frauen

Why not compress air, which can be stored under pressure and used in a combined gas turbine, which increases its efficiency tremendously.

r4

Multiple stages could also be used so one pump would increase the pressure of another pump's output without increasing the flow volume, eliminating the necessity for larger diameter pipes.

Furniture Stores Burbank

That's an interesting looking device. Lol.

Auto Lease Los Angeles

I've heard of this wave power before, I'm surprised you weren't familiar with Seadog- your blog has everything else about energy!

Dentist Los Angeles

Exactly how large is that? It is hard to tell in the picture the exact size.

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In my experience, venture capitalists ARE stupid. They pass up great things, and fund stupid things all the time. Occasionally they get it right.

Las Vegas Lakeside Weddings

This is for sure the closest thing to help the East Coast of the U.S. and many countries with their water and electricity problems. Something has to be done very soon or many areas of the world will be in grave danger from lack of fresh water and the cost of electricity to get it to the people.

Microsoft Office 2010

The new President will have to embrace this exact plan if the United States is to avoid economic catastrophe.

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