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« Hydrogen Made by Methanol Electrolysis Process Saves Energy | Main | NCSU Licenses Centia Biofuel Process to Diversified Energy »

February 12, 2007

Comments

Ani

Does anybody know where I can find the information on how much this is going to cost and I mean real costs, not including subsidies or "carbon cap" money. After all it's not going to be the utilities paying for this but the customers. I want to figure out what is going to the cheapest for me solar, wind, coal with carbon sequestration or nuclear.

Douglas

Could we please stop it with the IGCC??? You're making yourself look like you have no idea what you are talking about when you are touting this PR stunt of a technology. Pulverized coal will likely always be cheaper than IGCC, INCLUDING carbon capture. Pulverized coal plants produce power at 4 cents/kWh, which will at most go up to 6 cents/kWh with carbon capture and will decrease over time. That's still extremely cheap, and much cheaper than IGCC will ever be, and likely cheaper than gas, nuclear, and solar for a long time to come.

marcus

So Douglas if the choice is so clear why is this such an issue?

Chin Hsien

If electric power users really had the right to say, WE DON"T CARE HOW CHEAP...
----------------------

Users have the right, but before they show the right, they have to prove that they are really willing to suffer with high cost. One way to show that, is to save more energy from personal daily consumption and to be satisfied with simple life style~

Douglas

IGCC is NOT an issue and the choice is clear - you can see how many pulverized coal plants are being built and planned (hundreds) and how many IGCC plants are being planned and built (zero). If IGCC was really superior on so many dimensions to regular coal plants, I would think someone would be building them, even if they were 10-15% more expensive. The only place it's an issue is amongst people who have no idea what they're talking about.

Chin Hsien

Hello karl, from your reply I can really feel your sincere concern on this issue, though I don't really understand all your points.
I should state clearer for my points:
People has to "smartly" save more energy from personal daily consumption and to be satisfied with simple life style~

For instance the washing machine as you mentioned, we can actually collect the discharged water for other washing purpose, like moping floor. This should be similar to the heat pump you mentioned, basically is to "save" with the concept of "pinch analysis" - Use very clean water for process requiring such purity and reuse the water for process with less strict requirement. Use hot stream for heating a little bit cooler stream, and use that cooler stream to heat even colder stream, with optimized delta T.

Global warming is a problem to everyone on the earth, and hence requires the effort from everyone as a unity. To solve this problem, there are basically three steps: 1) make people aware about this problem; 2) make people willing to solve this problem; 3) make people know how they can contribute to solve the problem.

Simple and Smart life style is the way for every individual.

One more example, I read a report saying that there were almost 1 billion mobile phones sold last year worldwide. You can imagine that how many phones a person purchased in developed country within one year (as average). Is it a "must" to chase the updated technology?

Economists say, "consumption stimulates the production", when they are not aware about the very limited raw material and energy source for production, and they are not aware about the netagive impact of uncontrollable production. If people can reduce daily consumption "smartly", the production can be slowed down and developed towards "green" production.

One more example, we need to keep healthy life. One way is to take many different health supplement food (I am also taking a lot). But after I know those process (including drug and fine chemicals production) generates lots of waste, I consider to reduce the amount of health supplement I take, at the same time I try to sleep earlier and wake up earlier, and do some simple exercise in a garden, to keep my health through other "green" way rather then taking lots of health supplement.

As a conclusion, my emphasis is, again, to save the earth, it requires effort from everyone.

IGCC

Hi Douglas,

By your logic, isn't it just as possible that pulverized coal and CFB are just ahead of IGCC in their respective learning curves, and that IGCC technology will become competitive when more mature?

Seeing as that gasification of coal is nothing new and combined cycles are nothing new, their integration into a plant offering pre-combustion cleaning instead of post-combustion cleaning seems like a good idea. Also, with CO and H2 as the reactants prepared, in the future one or both could be oxidized in a fuel cell when the technology is more efficient than combustion to gas turbines and boilers with steam turbines, or used for other purposes (chemical fabrication?) than electricity generation when the time is right.

What do you think?

Mike

1. 20 million 5kw solar panels installed in next 5 years.
2. Windfall Oil depletion tax -staggered by year of discovery/production. Proceeds to fund #1.
3. $3gal gasoline tax
4. 200 KMW nukes added in next 10 years;
5. Ban > 4 cyl automobiles
6. ban new coal plants that aren't icsg
7. Carbon tax on individuals

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IGCC is NOT an issue and the choice is clear - you can see how many pulverized coal plants are being built and planned (hundreds) and how many IGCC plants are being planned and built (zero).

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hi,
Friend,
when they are not aware about the very limited raw material and energy source for production, and they are not aware about the netagive impact of uncontrollable production. If people can reduce daily consumption "smartly",

Mal

Control of global emissions rules are needed by the electric industry so they can plan ahead. They need plants that will be competitive in the future. After all we need affordable energy.

Great article.

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Here is what I am most interested about "promote development of cost-effective "climate-friendly" technologies."

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