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« Phoenix Places Large Order to Altair, Altair Receives 16.6% Ownership in Phoenix | Main | GS AgriFuels Completes Investment in Biorefinery Operator »

January 11, 2007

Comments

amazingdrx

A123 battery manufacturing already moving to China? Give up yet another trillion dollar manufacturing industry to China?

Good idea boardroomies! Whose side are these fellers on? They can't be with US.

Brian Wang

They are on the side of their shareholders just like they are legally required to be. Therefore, they are making the choices that make A123 battery the most money. Plus it is not a trillion dollar industry yet. The trillion dollar figure looks like a potential accumulation of several years. Normally industry sizes are described based on annual sales.
Auto industry worldwide sales
https://www.academicmind.com/scholarlypapers/business/management/2004-11-000aaa-automotive-industry-analysis.html
In 2001, the total sales of automobiles were 3.7% of the US gross domestic product. This percentage works out to be $375 billion dollars in sales. The worldwide industry is about 1 trillion. How do you figure just the battery bit will be 1 trillion and that the move of one company means that it is giving it away to china ?

I would suggest you take a business 100 class at a community college or university extension.

Because directors exercise control and management over the company, but companies are run (in theory at least) for the benefit of the shareholders, the law imposes strict duties on directors in relation to the exercise of their duties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors

Companies listed at the stock market strive to enhance shareholder value.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholder

This management principle, also known under value based management, states that management should first and foremost consider the interests of shareholders in its business decisions. This is built into the legal premise of a publicly traded company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_value

Jimmi

Very well put Brian...

But I think DocX was slightly exagerating a bit out of discuss because the 2 leading nano li-ion battery companies in the US have decided to deal with China.

I made an earlier post stating ABAT (Advanced Battery Technologies) is coming onto the market place with the world's first nano-battery scooter. I further added that AltairNano had signed an agreement with ABAT to supply the NTLO to make these batteries possible. DocX was not a happy camper when I posted that and claimed that China got yet another US leading technology. This A123 Systems deal just puts the icing on the cake when talking about US technologies going abroad to other countries. I'm sure we all know the li-ion battery market is well under $1 trillion... I'm sure well all know that the li-ion battery market is well under $100 billion. DocX is just mad... as am I.

amazingdrx

Yep Jimmy, we have the right to be "mad as hell, (and we aren't going to take it anymore!"). (Hehey, there's a new puctuation frontier!)

After watching all the great innovations pioneered here in the US outsourced for manufacturing.

But I really mean a trillion dollar business (not annually as Brian insists). Vehicles are a trillion annually. A couple thousand bucks worth of batteries in each vehicle over decades. That's a lot of business to offshore. Go ahead Brian quibble while a once great economy dies.

China the next superpower? The way the multinational corporations are running things, it's a done deal.

Maybe china will become a representative democracy and do the right thing by us all? Don't hold your breath. These neoconmen are putting economic (and eventually political and military)control of our one and only planet in the hands of Chinese communist party and military officials.

And just a few short decades ago (in the vietnam war era) the same fellers leading these oil wars warned US that communism was going to knock over all the dominoes and takeover.

Now they have taken over, by lending US money and taking all our jobs.

Jimmi

BTW...

Just want to add.. and this is just my opinion... seems A123 is playing catch-up to Altair. I first thought Altair was playing catch up to A123 since A123 was able to put there battery design onto the market place first with their agreement with Black n Decker. Not the case it seems.

A123 is just now getting into agreements to seek further RnD. On the other hand Altair has already made multiple agreements to further their RnD. Altair is in agreement with Electro Energy to come up with a high density battery that incorporates Electro's pattened bi-polar design. And I know we all know by now that there is an agreement with Alcoa to come up with a hybrid battery for trucks and we should hear news about that developement in the next few months. Alcoa/Altair expects RnD to be completed in early 2007.

At the same time... A123 automotive section is trying to develope batteries for hybrids with retrofit agreements and dealing with the Big 3 (which could take a while before anything actually happens)... while Altair decided to initially skip the hybrid market and went straight to EVs. I'm sure we all know about Phoenix Motor Cars.

I'm not a scientists or engineer... I'm just an investor as I said before. I've come to enjoy this blog as it helps me stay in touch with the energy sector and the alternatives that will be taking market share away from oil. I just want to point out something that may help you guys make some money and promote alternative energy solutions.

The race is on between A123 Systems and AltairNano. There are other energy storage companies out there such as Eestor, Vallence, and Electro Energy but right now in the market place it's all about A123 and Altair. We can't invest into A123 since it is a privately held company.. so let's look at Altair and it's revenue stream. I'm not going mention the continous losses the company has sustained for the last 5+ years because all that is based on it's revenue...

In 2006 for the first 9 months, total revenue from sales, grants, and all other sources was about $2.3 million. That runs about $800k a quarter. So a fair estimate for total revenues for 2006 would be about $3 million. The agreement with Phoenix Motor cars, as far as the minimum requirements to maintain it's exclusivity, is a minimum of $16 million in just 2007. That's a increase of almost 5 fold in revenues from just one source. And that's just the first year... the minimum requirements for the second year of the 3 year agreement is even more. AltairNano is at $2.60 a share... look at the 2007 projections and do the math as to what the value of the stock will be 12 months from now. I think the estimates that the analysts state are pretty conservitive at $4.50-$5.50 for 2007. Not to forget the 3 brokers making the analyst report (Canaccord Adams, Maxim Group, WR Hambrecht n Co.) have all reccomended Altair as a BUY... with one of them a STRONG BUY.

We should all do what we can to ensure an energy responsible society. We need to invest into things and promote things that can make a difference. Spread the word about battery technology and how it can change the world... not 10, 20 , 50 years from now but it can make changes today. Talk to your friends and neighbors... write to your congressman, your city council, spread the word beyond this blog.

Jimmi

And Jim...

Thanks for responding to my comment in the "Volt" article and posting that Altair/Phoenix the next day. Makes me feel good that somebody is actually reading my comments =) Hope your feeling better bro!!!

amazingdrx

Sounds like a pretty safe bet Jimmy. Maybe I'll risk buying 100 shares.

Like buying MSFT as a sub 5 dollar stock? Who knows? Fun way to gamble though.

Jimmi

Hey Doc...

Take a gamble... just to add some additional news...

If you look at the charts you'll notice a down trend in the recent weeks. That's just because Altair was actually runing outta money and needed to pull from the well yet again. To the tune of about 10 million shares. The institutional investors that bought the shares/warrrants got in for $2.70. If you look at that sale it also gives the institutional investors one warrant per share... each warrant is equal to the purchase right of 1/4 a share. So you're looking at 12.5 million shares at a buy in of $2.70. If you buy in now under $2.70... it's probally a safe bet. And just to add the icing on the cake... back in May of 2006 you have Alan Gotcher (Altair's CEO) bought close to 15000 shares of Altair at $2.93-$2.98 a share. I think buying in today at under $2.70 is a REAL REAL safe bet. You can't get better odds than this in Vegas =)

amazingdrx

Reviving my account now Jimmi, thanks. Bettin' on batteries!

Harvey D

Amazingdrx:

Do you realy believe that USA's current adminstration represents decent democracy? Correct me if I'm wrong; but the newly elected majority Congress + Senate can be overuled by the minority (Rep) leader. Many would say that it is closer to a short term dictatorship. Not all countries want USA style democracy.

We all know that USA and Canada have priced themselves out of the competitive production market years ago. The only way we're going to drive affordable PHEVs is with Chinese built advanced batteries installed in Japanese, Korean or Chinese built vehicles. These are hard facts that we (and UAW members) will have to live with.

Who knowns, some of those Chinese vehicles may eventually be built in USA/Canada as are many Toyota and Honda today.

Beek

Visit the "love activity" page of this Chinese nano-phosphate Li-ion manufacturer, and see a photo of the company chairman with some of "their poor staff". No kidding. This is hilarious.

https://www.zqpt.com/english/axhd.asp

"On the eve of the Spring Festival Mr. Zhiguo Fu always organize Zhongqiang¡¯s leadership to visit the poorest families in both urban and rural areas and provide articles for the New Year, which shows an entrepreneur¡¯s kind heart to the poor people."

Beek

At the risk of being so off topic, Harvey D, if this was a dictatorship here, you would not be able to post what you posted, and if you did, you would be picked up in the middle of the night and disappeared.

Before you use the terms "decent democracy" and "dictatorship" so loosely, you may want to go and live in Iran or Southern Lebanon Hezbolla land, and learn a bit about (the lack of) freedom and human rights. I know for sure that most people in the middle east highly appreciate US style liberal democracy, freedoms, and civil society.

Those very same death and torture squad Islamists, who wish to rule the ME with the force of guns and RPGs, and who are the darling of western leftists and post-colonials, all openly vie to emigrate to the US.

amazingdrx

"if this was a dictatorship here, you would not be able to post what you posted, and if you did, you would be picked up in the middle of the night and disappeared."

Jim doesn't like a lot of politics here so I posted a reply on my blog.

https://amazngdrx.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/1/13/2646045.html

Good points Harvey!

JohnBo

The world is changing and for the better. I'm glad China, Korea and others are manufacturing items for us and everyone on the planet. Lets hope Iraq can get going. We (the US) just don't have the manpower, our unemployment is the lowest in years. There is more opportunity than ever.

When the fuel prices doubled making alternate energies profitable the Energy Revolution did indeed take off. We are into billions being invested... this is super!

If I were a young engineer again I would jump into one of these interesting businesses. What fun it would be to work for Phoenix motors (by the way they are hiring but having difficulty finding people).

My advise to you who are complaining is to get schooling, join the positive side of life and stop being a cry baby. JohnBo

amazingdrx

"stop being a cry baby"

By all means Bo. Just keep supporting this wreck and ruin of an energy policy designed of, by, and for corrupt corporatist governance by staying quiet.

Shhhhh, don't want to disturb the nice lobbyists.

Beek

My advise to you who are complaining is to get schooling, join the positive side of life and stop being a cry baby. JohnBo

Well said, well said. Negativists are generally idealists unable to understand and cope with reality.

Account Deleted

Hiii..I know all know that USA and Canada have priced themselves out of the competitive production market years ago. The only way we're going to drive affordable PHEVs is with Chinese built advanced batteries installed in Japanese, Korean or Chinese built vehicles. These are hard facts that we (and UAW members) will have to live with.

Who knowns, some of those Chinese vehicles may eventually be built in USA/Canada as are many Toyota and Honda today...

thanks and regards

David

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