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« Valence Inks Battery Sale | Main | A Power Grid for the Hydrogen Economy »

July 09, 2006

Comments

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Nate Phillips

I don't know why no one is thinking of this.

Basic chemistry tells us that when electric current is applied to water, it splits into hydrogen and oxygen. There has been talk of refueling stations using electrolysis as a way to refuel hydrogen fuel cell cars.

Why not just go a step further and do the electrolysis right in the car? It would eliminate the need for a bulky, dangerous pressure tank, and it would make it so you never had to refuel your car.

When you put hydrogen into a fuel cell, it produces energy, then combines with oxygen to form water. Why not send that water to be electrolyzed to form more hydrogen, restarting the cycle?

Oil prices are too high to keep on in our gas-guzzling clunkers. Ethanol is even less efficient than gasoline, and the corn that primarily supplies the ingredients for ethanol could be used to fight hunger in developing countries. Natural gas is a fossil fuel, so there is a limited supply. Methanol just pollutes the air. Electric vehicles need some kind of power source, which usually involves inefficient processes.

Besides, the PEM fuel cell uses the simplest chemical reaction known to man which, by the way produces no emissions whatsoever.

Water (or, more accurately, hydrogen and oxygen)
is the fuel of the future.

Bob Wallace

Basic physics tells us that one needs an energy input to extract hydrogen from fuel or water.

Where's this energy going to come from in your hypothetical car?

Remember that energy is lost in the process of creating the hydrogen and significant energy is required (used up) powering the car....

Cyril R.

Bob, that was discussed elsewhere on this blog.

It was concluded that the energy comes from a Photon Fairy.

Cyril R.

Or, in this case, an Electron Fairy would be more accurate (but still not less of a scam)

It sounds cool though. You might want to register it before someone else does ;)

Bob Wallace

Photon Fairy, Electron Fairy, bah!

Right now what I want is a Firewood Fairy.

Guess I'll have to boot up and head out to do some splitting....

--

Thanks for the link. The lifetime battery info was interesting.

BTW, a Prius (taxi) made it to 297,000 miles on the original batteries.

Might have gone further but was totaled in a wreck.

chala

Electric vehicles has been around for several years now. It was invented decades ago than the hybrid cars.

The first electric vehicles were direct conversion from cars fitted with electric motors and

a dozen of batteries. That was the first appearance of EV's that eventually lost popularity

coz of crude design and the inconvenience of long charging hours.

But with the introduction of fuel cells EV's got a new life and has a promising future to

become the main choice in urban transport.


Related Sites:


Electric Plug-in Cars;
Hybrid Electric Cars

Jun

I agree to Nate.
To you Bob, this is not a hypothetical car. Electricity is required to split Hydrogen and Oxygen via Electrolysis. The hydrogen serves as fuel to your combustion engine. Engine comes up with an alternator to charge up the battery. The battery then supplies electricity to electrolysis process. Now, can you see the cycle here? Nothing is loss here, my friend, during combustion, the hydrogen molecules reacts (creating enormous amounts of energy)with oxygen to form water(as a steam) that goes out through the exhaust. Then comes water cycle, where the steam (water vapor) is precipitated to rain (condensate). Then you add the water again for your hydrogen-oxygen separator or electrolysis chamber. You don't need a rocket scientist to explain this. For your "hypothetical car", type "water-powered car" to YouTube and you see that this "hypothetical car" is far from being hypothetical.

Jun

I agree to Nate.
To you Bob, this is not a hypothetical car. Electricity is required to split Hydrogen and Oxygen via Electrolysis. The hydrogen serves as fuel to your combustion engine. Engine comes up with an alternator to charge up the battery. The battery then supplies electricity to electrolysis process. Now, can you see the cycle here? Nothing is loss here, my friend, during combustion, the hydrogen molecules reacts (creating enormous amounts of energy)with oxygen to form water(as a steam) that goes out through the exhaust. Then comes water cycle, where the steam (water vapor) is precipitated to rain (condensate). Then you add the water again for your hydrogen-oxygen separator or electrolysis chamber. You don't need a rocket scientist to explain this. For your "hypothetical car", type "water-powered car" to YouTube and you see that this "hypothetical car" is far from being hypothetical.

Jun

I agree to Nate.
To you Bob, this is not a hypothetical car. Electricity is required to split Hydrogen and Oxygen via Electrolysis. The hydrogen serves as fuel to your combustion engine. Engine comes up with an alternator to charge up the battery. The battery then supplies electricity to electrolysis process. Now, can you see the cycle here? Nothing is loss here, my friend, during combustion, the hydrogen molecules reacts (creating enormous amounts of energy)with oxygen to form water(as a steam) that goes out through the exhaust. Then comes water cycle, where the steam (water vapor) is precipitated to rain (condensate). Then you add the water again for your hydrogen-oxygen separator or electrolysis chamber. You don't need a rocket scientist to explain this. For your "hypothetical car", type "water-powered car" to YouTube and you see that this "hypothetical car" is far from being hypothetical.

Kit P

“You don't need a rocket scientist to explain this.”

A high school student who has taken either chemistry or physics should be able to explain why a perpetual motion machine is not hypothetically possible.

chris

Thank you Kit for telling Jun how it is.

Seriously, Jun, are you kidding? Do you really think you just solved the country's transportation crisis with your drive-by physics?

Posting it 3 times doesn't make it any more true.

I mean Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ...

William Baker

Did the person thinking its a "hypothetical car" finish any schooling at all< I am doing just that using hydrogen as my fuel! We went from 19 to 38MPG!

William Baker

Did the person thinking its a "hypothetical car" finish any schooling at all< I am doing just that using hydrogen as my fuel! We went from 19 to 38MPG!

run your car on water

i am glad this company is doing this. lets move towards the future.

Michael Lawler

Hey cool Beans
not to demean the DOD but why not build small separators to go with the cell instead of dragging fuel to the cell, its all ready available. Poly electrical separator could be made efficient enough to be place in the roofs of cars and trucks, and why just vehicles a fuel cell with separator would allow any remote place on the earth to have POD power on demand
can we end the Power Struggle with this
or do you up your meds for OCD

jackthengineer

I can't believe the ridiculous comments on this website. The alternative energy crowd needs to sit down with a thermo book and quit pontificating on why the experts have not thought of this. Then we could focus on thermodynamically feasible energy schemes and quit wasting time and money.

Truck Rental

I am glad to know about electric vehicles. Electric vehicle helps in reducing pollution as well as it money saving in compare to using petrol or diesel vehicle . We all people must consider it.

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amos33

for Kit, if perpetual motion is not hypethetically possible, why is the earth still circling the sun?

for Chris, sometimes the response on a computer causes a post to be repeated. As to your comment about 'drive by physics', why haven't your esteemed physicist come up with solutions? I installed a OxyHydrogen Generator on my truck and first, it cleaned out all the hydrocarbon build up, ran cooler and quieter and went from 20 mpg to 31.7 mpg. If OxyHydrogen is no good, why did NASA use it for main thrust of the Space Shutte? Granted they use 20K lpm and I use only 2 lpm, but it is for real Chris and so is Jesus Christ, have a good day sir.

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