Welcome to the Energy Blog


  • The Energy Blog is where all topics relating to The Energy Revolution are presented. Increasingly, expensive oil, coal and global warming are causing an energy revolution by requiring fossil fuels to be supplemented by alternative energy sources and by requiring changes in lifestyle. Please contact me with your comments and questions. Further Information about me can be found HERE.

    Jim


  • SUBSCRIBE TO THE ENERGY BLOG BY EMAIL

After Gutenberg

Clean Break

The Oil Drum

Statistics

Blog powered by Typepad

« Solar Overview on CNET | Main | Huge Concentrating PV Collector to Start Tests »

March 09, 2006

Comments

jcwinnie

The question, Jim, is whether there will be a market for quick charging pumps, especially for high usage? And, one possible answer is how much cheaper it will be than switching to combustible fuel to stop at the Stop 'N Shop for milk, bread, and some joules.

Engineer-Poet

There will always be a market, used by people who need to drive distances beyond the single-charge range of their vehicles.  Commuters who can charge at work won't need them, but folks on the highway will.

A charging station will resemble a CNG station; energy comes in steadily via wire (vs. pipeline), is stored (batteries, flywheels or ultracaps vs. high-pressure tanks) and is transferred quickly to the vehicles.  One difference is that the station can make money by selling regulation and load-levelling services to the grid operators as well as electricity to vehicles.

JesseJenkins

"One difference is that the station can make money by selling regulation and load-levelling services to the grid operators as well as electricity to vehicles."

Good point, E-P, and that improves the economics of an electric 'filling station'. Still, I'm not sure which would make more sense, electric filling stations for an all-electric fleet, or electric dominant plug-in hybrids with the liquid fuel for those highway trips coming from cellulosic ethanol.

Michael Cain

Someone over at the Motley Fool provided a number for the published patent app, which can be downloaded a page at a time from the USPTO using this link. The most obviously interesting thing in the application is that compared to other ultracapacitors, this one has relatively small capacitance (31 Farads) but very high voltage (3500 V).

David Kelly

If the capacitor operates at high voltage, then we have the patent(s) pending power supply technology to go along with it.

Sorry at the time of this writing our website was undergoing a redesign, the high voltage to low voltage power supply technology is on the page ( ½ way down) http://www.stonepathpower.com/custom_work.htm

Dave

Stephen Boulet

Engineer-Poet wrote: "Still, I'm not sure which would make more sense, electric filling stations for an all-electric fleet, or electric dominant plug-in hybrids with the liquid fuel for those highway trips coming from cellulosic ethanol."

It seems to me that electric filling stations would make more sense, since, ultimately, power generating stations are more efficient than ICEs. The path I am thinking of would be to use the ultracaps in hybrids until a recharging infrastructure is in place and until battery capacity allows electric-only operation.

Stephen

happyjuggler0

Some suggestions for "filling stations" locations:

Hotels/motels, WalMart, fast food joints, middle-of-nowhere highway rest stops with low real estate costs.

One thing they all have in common is parking space already in place. Hotels and motels ought to welcome the extra usage of their parking during daylight hours.

Paul Wagner

Ummm...just a thought, but what happens if you "run out of joules" while driving down the highway? You'd better have a very lengthy extension cord.

Doug Eckert

I'm sure you'd have in-dash monitoring/gauges to avoid running too low on electrons. If vehicles come complete with both an AC & DC recharge mechanism (on-board inverter?), then you can recharge from an EV tow-truck to get you to the nearest outlet, then you're on your way in 5 minutes at full capacity.

Doug Alder

There was a recent article on EEStor in CNN's Money - http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/technology/disruptors_eestor.biz2/index.htm - The single charge can give you a 500 mile cruising range. That's more than sufficient to rely strictly on recharging stations and no need for any hybridizations. As long as this technology works and all of this is not some late dot com era pre IPO hoopla generation then this technology is going to stand a lot of businesses on their heads and put quite a few others out of business.

haikunick

This kind of thing would be great for electric bikes and mopeds. The weight of the battery, # of recharge limits, and the length of recharge time make it impractical. I'd love to create a tricycle that had enough power to push mom, baby, and insulated grocery bin around the neighborhood and park at the store. I'm so sick of seeing SUV's and single occupant cars running around town burning all that precious carbon to push 2 tons of metal around.

But seeing is believing on a product that offers so much. What happens if the capacitor fails? Is it a giant arc going to ground? or is it a white hot short lived fire?

john

Michael:

31 Farads is not a small capacitor, I don't think one with that high a capacitance has ever been built. Thats why we in the capacitor business rate caps at Micro-farads, one millionth of a farad.

Haikunik:

If this were real,(which I don't believe)there would be the equivalent of 100 sticks of dynamite sitting there. If so, the effect of a short would be pretty dramatic.(and that is how these caps fail)

Doug E:

That tow truck would have to have one heck of a lot of storage. To deliver that charge in 5 minutes would require over 2000 amps..what's your house service amps?

Lawrence Miller

Michael wrote: "31 Farads is not a small capacitor, I don't think one with that high a capacitance has ever been built."

Super capacitors are common today having 1000's of Farads, yes Farads. Low voltage though, maybe 2.7 V.

Here is an example at www.DigiKey.com

Part search on: ESHSP-5000C0-002R7

CAPACITOR ULTRA 5000F 2.7V MOD

Let's use engineering units, 5 kF.

I await to see what EEStor produces.

Lawrence Miller

Correction, John wrote... See my post above.

CapacitorMan

I stand corrected, I was not aware they came that high, that is some bundle!

In any case, it would require 8000 of those to provide the energy for the car, which is about a cube 5ft on edge, and weigh around 8 tons. At the Digi-Key prices, it would cost $2.8 million....probably not practical, but it puts the eestor claims in perspective.

H. Ohlke

I am optimistic that cross-country personal electric transportation may be available in the near future. However, a small stumbling block to this dream would be the government's eventual concern on how to collect highway taxes from cars charging off the electric grid. This may be part of the reason that so much grant money is currently available to research only the technologies that require one to fill up at fueling stations (methanol, hydrogen, etc) where taxes could easily be collected.

A suggestion would be to tax tires for highway taxes in lieu of fuel. This way no matter what provides the energy, fair taxes on the amount of highway used by an individual could be collected. Government should be happy that the money keeps rolling in for highway maintenance.

If this was seriously considered, it would be interesting to see the debate over what amount should be levied per tire. Should a motorcycle tire be taxed the same as a car or 18 wheeler tire ? What about the loss of tax money from gas used by lawnmowers, tractors and other non-highway vehicles ?

Definitely should make for an interesting discussion....

Brian H

This EEStor website redesign is taking one unholy amount of time. Wassup?

The comments to this entry are closed.

. .




Batteries/Hybrid Vehicles